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Spying 201 #11172
10/16/10 06:10 PM
10/16/10 06:10 PM
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Larry Offline OP
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I invite all who would participate in this chore, to put their oars in the water and make a contribution. Sure, I will have my own contribution. In my haste to get this started, I decided to hold my thoughts till later on if the thread can get rolling nicely.

Cut and past and reword or provide your original concepts as the case may be.

Larry

Last edited by Larry; 10/16/10 09:12 PM.

It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #11267
10/17/10 02:00 AM
10/17/10 02:00 AM
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Larry Offline OP
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Okay, leave us get started on this one. The purpose of the construction zone is to aid in the formation of articles and stickys that can be used in certain forums to provide information on whatever subject.

This thread is open for anything associated with spying, including how to spy and the reason for spying; tell tale justifications for spying. Whatever other reasons anyone can come up with.

Larry

Last edited by Larry; 10/17/10 02:06 AM.

It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #11269
10/17/10 02:09 AM
10/17/10 02:09 AM
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Larry Offline OP
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Why spy?

Wife gets suspicious (or husband) that their spouse is having an affair. It is seldom useful to confront spouse with the suspicions for a couple of reasons; confrontations are not a good idea, especially if spouse is innocent and two, if they are guilty, you think they are gonna roll over, confess all and shot themselves?

Some telling stuff:

1. All of a sudden, wife or husband starts paying more attention to how they dress and groom. Number one give away.

2. Calls that hang up in the night when you answer.

3. Call and text records disappear from spouse's cell phone.

4. Sudden extra hours at the office.

5. Long walks by themselves in the night - or whenever.

6. Taking their cell phone with them into the bathroom.

Hey, I am no expert on this, help me out, what are the signs?

Larry

Last edited by Larry; 10/17/10 02:11 AM. Reason: spelling

It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #11296
10/17/10 05:04 AM
10/17/10 05:04 AM
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Larry Offline OP
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So how do you spy? That breaks down by category:

1. Computer. Number one place. Key logger is the number one tool. Everything typed is logged. Problem is that spyware and anti-hijacking software can sometimes spot key loggers. It is a game between key logger programmers and spyware programmers. Key loggers also know which web sites, like facebook, myspace, etc., is visited even if the cache is cleared. $ to $$

2. Email - problem here is the password. Second problem is that email will log a message that has been read, so you can't read one until he/she has read it. Company mail is always a problem. Some key loggers have screen shot capability. THAT is effective when you can't figure out the password. A key logger that also takes screen shots will help ID secret emails. $ to $$

Anyone want to do a key logger evaluation?

3. Cell phones. Here are some things that can be done with a cell phone: $ to $$$

Call Interception Listen to the actual calls LIVE on the target cell phone

Environment Listening - Make a spy call to the target cell phone running SPY PHONE and listen in to the phone's surroundings.

SMS Logging Records both incoming & outgoing SMS

SIM Change Notification Get instant notification via SMS when the target cell phone changes it's SIM

Remote Control Send secret SMS to the target phone to control all functions

Spy from any location across the world

100% Undetectable - I seriously doubt this one.

Only works on some phones. There is a ton of different software out there. Give your spouse a new phone as a present and have the software preloaded *grin*

Can get really, really pricy.

4. Home phone. Any radio shack can sell you what you need to record phone calls from your land line home phone. $ to $$

5. Recorders - voice activated. One in every car. $ to $$

6. GPS trackers - one on the car. See where they are going. Parked at the no tell motel for a few hours is a real good hint. $$ to $$$

7. Spy Shops with spy gear including GPS trackers and more. There are dozens online. url=http://www.spyshops.com/]Here is one.[/url} $$$ to $$$$$

8. Private Detective agencies: Dozens and dozens. Can do the job, to include finding people who do not want to be found. $$$$$

9. There is another category, what am I missing.

Larry



It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #11330
10/17/10 01:45 PM
10/17/10 01:45 PM
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star*fish Offline
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Larry,

I'm already doing a guide on "if you think your spouse might be cheating". It's about "signs", not spy strategies, so I'll link your spy guide once I get finished.


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: Spying 201 [Re: star*fish] #11334
10/17/10 02:08 PM
10/17/10 02:08 PM
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Larry Offline OP
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Ok, then I will go back and ignore what I posted on signs when the guide advances to that stage and link your deal.



It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #11335
10/17/10 02:12 PM
10/17/10 02:12 PM
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Hi Larry: I'll be happy to contribute some brief thoughts/opinions.

1. Keyloggers: Without a doubt, Eblaster is the best. The problem is that it can't be used on some older computers, particularly Macs.

2. Phones: If it's a smart phone, Flexispy is good, but it's spendy. Some cell phone carriers, such as Sprint, do not use SIM cards, so a SIM card reader is not an option there.

Assuming you can get to the spouse's computer, some technical but easy-to-follow steps to obtain browser history would be useful. I'm not very tech savvy. I can do some cursory checks, but each browser is different. Also, I believe the logs go somewhere, even after they are deleted, but have no idea how to access. Maybe someone can chime in here. Same with deleted files and emails. Web based email...I think you are out of luck. But if the person is using an email client, such as Outlook or AppleMail, I think you can still access the emails that have been deleted. Once again, I'm not sure how. When H was involved in his EA, I accidentally stumbled on some pictures and files that he had thought he deleted, but following some instructions I had Googled, I was able to find.

Last edited by OurHouse; 10/17/10 02:15 PM. Reason: add stuff
Re: Spying 201 [Re: OurHouse] #11345
10/17/10 03:12 PM
10/17/10 03:12 PM
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I know that all the technology brings spying up to a whole 'nuther level, but I would like to see some old-school ideas, too. Depending on the age of the WS, they may not use technology extensively. Plus, you can't hide a tangible gift in your computer or cell phone.

After living through infidelity and also hearing people talk about it for years online, I have these suggestions:

Look for things in plain sight. My ex hid gifts from the OW(s) inside cowboy boots in his clothes closet (he didn't wear them often and they just sat there looking totally normal and innocent).

He also used the wheel well of his spare tire, under the carpet in the trunk. The only reason ANYone would think to look there is by accident. I needed something in the trunk and happened upon a treasure trove. Ingenious.

Here are more places to check:

Behind photos in frames, under the cardboard.

Inside board games you never play.

The rafters in the garage.

Tool boxes/chests/sewing kits that only one of you use.

Sheds or storage units.

Suitcases, purses, old bags of any kind, including shopping bags and beach bags.

As I think of more, I'll add them. Tell me if you think this is a good idea.



A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

Re: Spying 201 [Re: wiser_now] #11368
10/17/10 04:36 PM
10/17/10 04:36 PM
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Larry Offline OP
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Terrific NB - those over forty cheat just as much, if not more.


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #11390
10/17/10 05:52 PM
10/17/10 05:52 PM
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star*fish Offline
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Larry,

One way to find out your husband/wife is cheating is to "follow the money". Money leaves a paper trail. Here's a great article to help you put that thought together:

http://www.sideroad.com/Marriage/sign_of_infidelity.html

Last edited by star*fish; 10/17/10 06:06 PM. Reason: gender equality :)

"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: Spying 201 [Re: star*fish] #11400
10/17/10 06:36 PM
10/17/10 06:36 PM
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Chrysalis Offline
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Coat Pockets.


Chrysalis
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Chrysalis] #11401
10/17/10 06:41 PM
10/17/10 06:41 PM
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Medc Offline
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I have not read the thread yet, but wanted to post that the surreptitious recording of conversations is, in many states, a felony. Please be careful.

There are some states that allow 1 party consent. Most are 2 party consent.




Don't go shaking the [Bleep!] tree and expect an angel to fall out.

Liars lie and cheaters cheat...know it and don't be surprised. Protect yourself.

Re: Spying 201 [Re: Medc] #11407
10/17/10 07:12 PM
10/17/10 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrysalis
Coat Pockets.


... and to continue adding to my earlier thoughts and this one:

Under the mattress - it's not just teenagers that do this!

Inside the box spring, where mesh can be cut without noticing much.

The back of drawers - NOT the inside - taped on the outside while the drawer is entirely pulled out, then pushed back in.

Basement, attic, under the house (crawl space), vents, high cupboards that you normally don't use or only use for storage.


A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

Re: Spying 201 [Re: wiser_now] #11506
10/18/10 03:33 AM
10/18/10 03:33 AM
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Larry Offline OP
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Here is a post I did elsewhere

I have started a thread called Spying 201. In the case of a cellphone, it is relatively easy to install a program that reveals just about anything you want to know, conversations, emails, locations, half a dozen different items. Your cell phone provider may or may not be able to detect such a spy program.

An absolute defense is to get a new phone, one that is not on the list of phones which can be bugged.

Any respectable spy shop sells dozens of items that can be used for spying. Any online PI can find an address, phone number, place of employment, prior marriages and a host of other details - the subscribe to pay sites where such information is gathered and sold.

I know of at least one divorce case where information from an affair forum was used in court - gathered through screen shots by those who lurk. We have a safe place here for just those situations - one of the reasons for the creation. And we can, like another site I am familiar with, create one that is even safer.

This site is less well known than others. If you are posting on more than one forum, I would look somewhere else than here, UNLESS, you have a key logger on your home computer, which is more likely than not.

Key loggers are notoriously difficult to detect. What I recommend is that if you think one is on your computer, you take it to a reputable shop and issue the following instructions: see if you can find a key logger. Yes or no, do a recovery to a previous date - say a year ago or some time that predates the affair. OR, scrub it and reinstall windows. If you can do those things yourself or have a really trusted friend do it, then do it.

After your you know your computer is safe, change the passwords on all of your accounts, including email accounts. Pick a string that is easy to remember but nearly impossible to break.

Here is an example - please don't use it except as a template.

m5a6r7y - See how hard that would be to break, but easy to remember?


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #11507
10/18/10 03:35 AM
10/18/10 03:35 AM
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Larry Offline OP
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I am going to give this thread another 24 hours to exist, then I am going to write it up. Please help with suggestions and knowledge as much as you can please.

Larry


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #11509
10/18/10 03:43 AM
10/18/10 03:43 AM
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http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/...n/discover-the-truth/catch-cheating.html

Larry....my best advice would be to peruse the plethora of articles on this subject around the web. There's some great stuff out there. And don't rush it. Give people time to weigh in...especially during the week while we have the most traffic.


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: Spying 201 [Re: star*fish] #11512
10/18/10 03:55 AM
10/18/10 03:55 AM
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Larry Offline OP
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Says the lady who one day decided to write Star's guide. Great job by the way. grin

There is lots to add, I just wanted other people to contribute. Heck I don't necessarily know all of it. And yes, I have read half a dozen sites.

We can talk about credit card statements, cell phone bills either hard copy or on the web, telephone bills, frequently called numbers you don't know about.

Most of spying is a bit technical, but it doesn't have to be as witness the contributions to date. So there are sections to be written on both.

And I have started the idea in my head that part of the guide to detect spying might be a good idea too.

Ok, I will wait a week.

Larry


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #11679
10/18/10 05:27 PM
10/18/10 05:27 PM
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I think that the REASONS for spying might need to be addressed. Yeah, we suspect that our spouse is having an affair. I get that part. What I am referring to is the part about, "Why bother to spy?"

Some possible reasons might be:

1) To verify that an affair is really taking place.

2) To verify or identify the affair partner.

3) To determine how far the affair has progressed and to try to figure out if it was just a "mistake in judgment" or if it is a romantic affair which can be very addictive.

4) To ensure that contact has ended if the wayward spouse claims that it has.

5) To gather information that can be used against the affair or that might be deemed usable in the case of divorce.

6)... ???? (add other as you think of them.

In the worlds of international espionage, politics and big business, spying is used to gain an advantage over one's opponent. Even in sports, spying takes on significance for those wishing to determine what the opposition is doing so that a strategy can be implemented to counter act it. And of course, in the world of undercover investigations either for law enforcement or by the media to bring to light some misdeed by a person or group of persons spying has become an art form with undercover operatives, high tech methods of gathering information and even whole lives for the operatives being created to mask the real objectives of the investigation.

But I think that before spying is begun, it needs to have a clear reason for taking place. The activity itself can meet a need for some and is sometimes used as a way to control a spouse. It can also be used to thwart attempts to uncover the truth about your own life by those who have something to hide. If it is to be used as leverage to do anything beyond saving the marriage or finding out the truth, I would think long and hard before embarking on a spying program of any sort.

In this age of technology, a lot of simple methods can be used to determine various things without resorting to a key-logger or other spying software and hardware. The Internet is a vast source of information for those who can learn to use it to their advantage.

Cell phone records are available on-line for those who are the primary account holder for a cellular account. While specific SMS and call content cannot be determined from the records available, call duration, volume and numbers called can be easily looked up on line if you have access to the on-line tools available with nearly every post-paid cellular account. This can indicate a pattern more than it can give specifics of what is being discussed, but if over half the phone calls and SMS on an account are to one or two numbers that you have no knowledge of who they belong to, it does show a clear pattern.

Even land-line phone records might be available to you, even if you aren't the primary account holder if you have access to the account. On Comcast, for example, there is a tool that allows you to see the incoming, outgoing and missed calls on the account similar to the logs built into cell phones. This is available on-line and can be a great starting point. Once a number is found, finding out who the number belongs to is the next step and again, the Internet can be the place to begin.

If you have never done this simple thing, give it a try. Go to Google and type your phone number with Area Code and exchange separated by dashes into the search bar. (XXX-XXX-XXXX) Unless your number is a true unlisted number, you might be surprised by what you can find. Even if it is just a name and address, you already have one key piece of information. Cell phone numbers are not directly available this way, so if it is a cell phone number, another step can sometimes lead you to the same information.

Even if it is a work number, knowing where the person works can be to your advantage. If your spouse is having an affair with someone with whom he or she works, this can be difficult to sort out from phone records, but if the person works somewhere else, it can help you find out who that person is. If 200 calls per month are made to an out of state business that has nothing to do with anything you know your spouse might be involved in, chances are good that if other signs of infidelity are present, this could be the work place of the affair partner.

If the number is a cell phone or if Google and other free sources turn up nothing,, sites such as Intellius and others can get access to a lot of information unless the person has opted out of being listed anywhere. While this method is not fool proof, it can at times lead you to a name and once you have that name, sites that do background checks for a minimal fee can be used to find out a whole host of information.

Court records can also be a source of information that can tell you if a person has been married, divorced, who their nearest living relatives are and even how many children they might have. Even free sources can sometimes point you to those who are related by birth or by marriage.

A cheap source of information can be a Voice Activated Recorder. Once large and cumbersome and in the domain of only highly sophisticated operators, these can now be had from Radio Shack, Walmart, Best Buys and a plethora of on-line sources. If money is no object, two or three can be had cheaply enough to allow them to be interchanged in various locations and continue spying while one is being reviewed and the batteries changed out. The car is a good place to hide one as is any place a telephone might be used. While you will typically only hear one side of a conversation, unless the affair partner is in the car or in the home with your cheating spouse, it again can give you a load of usable information that might be of benefit in determining just how far an affair has gone.

Hiding one of these devices in the car can be tricky for those who have little knowledge of automobiles, but if the device has a separate microphone, the mic can be concealed behind AC vents or in the gap between the steering column and the instrument panel or above the visor on the passenger side of the vehicle. The cord can be easily tucked behind the panels of the car with no or only simple tools like a small screw driver and the VAR itself attached under the dashboard using Velcro or double sided tape. (Use the foam carpet tape for this as you don't want it to fall onto the floor while your spouse is driving along on the way to work.) Since most of these units use media cards, a second card can be swapped with the original and the batteries changed with the unit in place if it is accessible enough. Planning is the key to this, so consider your options carefully.

The simplest place to put a VAR in an automobile is under the seat. It still needs to be attached somehow so as to prevent it from rattling around, but in some vehicles a lot of road noise will be the primary thing picked up. Radio and music will also trigger these things so be ready to listen to a lot of useless information.

Another place to hide one is under the bed in the master bedroom, but also consider placing one in the guest bedroom if you have one since often a wayward spouse will have some sort of twisted idea that as long as they don't have sex in the marital bed itself, they aren't really crossing some arbitrary line they feel is too far.

A Nanny Cam or security or web camera can also be used in the home and since many of these are easily concealed, they can be used pretty easily. These can usually be accessed through a secure site by logging in and viewing what is going on at home while traveling or while at work. Many can also be hooked up to a digital video recorder or be recorded using DVR software on a computer. Review the recordings often so that the hard drive doesn't fill up too quickly. Ideally a separate PC or DVR should be used that can be concealed or that the spouse doesn't normally have access to so that the possibility of accidental discovery can be limited.

A trusted friend or neighbor can also be a good choice for gathering intelligence. While the fear that letting others know of our suspicions can cause you to avoid recruiting them to help, as long as the person is a trusted friend, not the prime suspect in the affair and willing to help monitor what is going on at your home while you are away, they could be recruited to assist in the investigation. If the same car appears every day at 2:40 pm and leaves ten minutes before you are due to arrive home from work, that clear pattern can be readily apparent.

Quite often someone besides you already has suspicions of an affair and if you can find this person, they might be willing to tell you what they already know, which alone might not be enough to base a decision on but when put together with other bits and pieces might be the key to unlocking the entire thing. Many are loath to get involved in the personal life of neighbors or people they might be friends with, but if asked if they have seen or heard anything suspicious, they could become the source of that key piece you have been looking for.

Whatever the source you use to find out and verify that your spouse is cheating, act upon that information or the effort will be a waste of time. Sitting by and doing nothing will only make the affair become more entrenched and lessen the likelihood of bringing it to a swift end. The sooner you know what to do when an affair has been confirmed and begin doing those specific things will help you to fight the affair and save your marriage. You don't need court admissible proof to confront a cheater and even in light of overwhelming proof, few will rarely admit to having an affair. You don't have to convince the cheater they are cheating; they already know that. You only have to convince him or her that YOU know about the affair.

Once you have the information, and in the face of the affair continuing without remorse, continuing to spy will likely leave you feeling helpless and cause untold emotional damage that can make recovery difficult or impossible. You don't need to know every time your cheating spouse says "ILY" to the affair partner. Gathering and logging this kind of information will only make you nuts. If they claim the affair is over, however, continuing to spy can verify that no contact has been established and prevent you from discovering too late that the affair has simply gone underground.

Just a few thoughts and ideas...

Mark


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: Spying 201 [Re: wiser_now] #11884
10/19/10 01:18 AM
10/19/10 01:18 AM
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Vittoria Offline
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Originally Posted by new_beginning
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
Coat Pockets.


... and to continue adding to my earlier thoughts and this one:

Under the mattress - it's not just teenagers that do this!

Inside the box spring, where mesh can be cut without noticing much.

The back of drawers - NOT the inside - taped on the outside while the drawer is entirely pulled out, then pushed back in.

Basement, attic, under the house (crawl space), vents, high cupboards that you normally don't use or only use for storage.

I found lots of letters and cards in the rafters. I missed the ones that were hidden in work files in the cabinet.

I also found OW's address, phone numbers (home, cell and work) directions to her apt., in H's desk.
They were NOT hidden away, his desk was simply not something that I would ever frequent.

Sometimes things are not hidden. Don't forget the obvious, is my point. Waywards can be thoughtless.


26 yrs. married
There's nothing more powerful than a woman with an open heart ......
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Vittoria] #11932
10/19/10 05:41 AM
10/19/10 05:41 AM
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right here waiting Offline
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Funny you should mention your H's work files, Vitt. Made me remember that I found OW's phone numbers (home and cell) in my H's briefcase.

I am so grateful that it's all starting to feel like a bad dream. Yeah, I know it was real, but he's been so darned O&H for so long, it gives that time an air of unreality. Thank God.

Re: Spying 201 [Re: right here waiting] #12112
10/19/10 11:01 PM
10/19/10 11:01 PM
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there must be some program to get Yahoomail, Gmail passwords somewhere.

Also a way to see private Facebook accounts

Re: Spying 201 [Re: NYGfan] #12116
10/19/10 11:17 PM
10/19/10 11:17 PM
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I used a keylogger, intruder.


Re: Spying 201 [Re: OurHouse] #12179
10/20/10 04:59 AM
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Larry Offline OP
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Anyone ever tried to get rid of a keylogger?

I have heard that it is easy to do by restoring to a previous date where the key logger was likely not installed.

Any comments?


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: star*fish] #12184
10/20/10 05:07 AM
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So how do you spy? That breaks down by category:

1. Computer.


I'd add google to this list. If someone has a google account, their search history is saved on the google server, even if their local cache and history is cleared.

Phone records can be obtained from the phone service provider. Cell phone call and received call records, in particular, are detailed and listed.

Last edited by AntigoneRisen; 10/20/10 05:08 AM.

Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Spying 201 [Re: AntigoneRisen] #12322
10/20/10 05:46 PM
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To mention a delicate subject, here is a link to something obvious if you think about it:

Body Fluid Detection

That particular site has other spying technology for sale, including DNA tests. The prices seem about average or slightly lower than some.

Larry


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #12377
10/20/10 08:50 PM
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Look at receipts....very telling. Especially once a BS starts questioning bank statements and CC statements. The WS will often go to all cash and inveriably leave a receipt in their pockets or purse...

Oh, and for BH'S....the PURSE.... grin

Not


" If you couldn't change your partner when you were together, you sure aren't going to now that you aren't together..." Words of the teacher of the court mandated parenting class...and the ONE thing that stuck out to me!!!
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #12524
10/21/10 08:33 AM
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Yes. We actually used to discuss these kits often on Marriage Builders many years ago. I actually helped a guy who discovered that his wife was cheating via one of those kits.

I do recommend them.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Spying 201 [Re: AntigoneRisen] #12525
10/21/10 08:35 AM
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Anyone ever tried to get rid of a keylogger?

I have heard that it is easy to do by restoring to a previous date where the key logger was likely not installed.

Any comments?


I can detect and get rid of a keylogger very quickly and easily. However, it takes quite a bit of technical knowledge for some of them.

I will not go into how this is done out here. I'm not interested in assisting WSs avoid detection.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Not2fun] #12526
10/21/10 08:38 AM
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Look at receipts....very telling. Especially once a BS starts questioning bank statements and CC statements. The WS will often go to all cash and inveriably leave a receipt in their pockets or purse...


The trash. It's gross, but that's where people put things they want to disappear.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Spying 201 [Re: AntigoneRisen] #12654
10/21/10 07:18 PM
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What I find interesting is the things people KEEP rather than trying to make them disappear by throwing them away. They keep receipts, programs from events, a book of matches, a paper cup, a note on a napkin, a ticket stub from a movie, a cork from a bottle of wine, a phone number on a scrap of paper they called so often in the last 30 days they can dial it without looking...

When you find it, the whole history of the affair is right there for your inspection. It is usually all together in one place, carefully concealed yet not done away with and sometimes it remains long after the affair is over. Look for a box under the bed, a folder hidden under a drawer of the dresser, an old purse or briefcase long forgotten in the closet but suddenly with things arranged neatly around it. A shoe box whose shoes wore out a season ago stuck on the corner of the shelf or a bag from Sears rolled neatly around something and pushed behind or into the sleeves of the winter coats can yield more than you want to know.

Look for picture CDs stuck into the jewel case for an old music CD that suddenly reappeared. Look for signs of files on the PC that point to a flash drive or other temporary or removable storage device. (the admin for a Windows machine can right click on <Start> and select <Explore All Users> or <Open All Users>. Look at /Recent Documents for each user (don't count on the wayward's own desktop being the only place they will use) and see if any of the files can be read.

There are programs available that can recover recently deleted files if the sectors haven't yet been over-written by other data. Some have a free trial that can identify the deleted files though you usually have to pay to get the version that actually recovers those files. Look for deleted folders as well as files.

For those who remember their MSDOS commands, use DOS to examine the tree structure of the entire hard drive looking for a directory that is out of place, such as one called /Stuff buried 4 or 5 levels deep in the tree under Excel or Word or even under /My Music. In my experience, they HIDE things but seldom get rid of them...

One oft forgotten aspect of spying is that you can't always use what you find as leverage as soon as you find it. You sometimes have to sit on something, make copies, put away for safe keeping and otherwise protect the source of your information before you confront the wayward. The purpose of spying is to gather data and intelligence. Once you have revealed your source, the ability to use that source is usually gone for good, so gather, accumulate, copy and safely store whatever you find before picking a fight over any part of what you located.

But once you have gathered your information, you do need to act at some point. You don't need iron-clad proof that will hold up in court. You don't need to find the word "affair" scrawled across an envelope stashed in the lingerie drawer to know what it is about when you find love notes signed "Love, F" and your name is Bob or Bonnie. You don't have to prove to the cheater that he or she is cheating. You only have to show them that you know they are cheating. They already know it...

Mark


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Mark1952] #12660
10/21/10 07:28 PM
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Quote


One oft forgotten aspect of spying is that you can't always use what you find as leverage as soon as you find it. You sometimes have to sit on something, make copies, put away for safe keeping and otherwise protect the source of your information before you confront the wayward. The purpose of spying is to gather data and intelligence. Once you have revealed your source, the ability to use that source is usually gone for good, so gather, accumulate, copy and safely store whatever you find before picking a fight over any part of what you located.



VERY IMPORTANT POINT, Mark. Glad you brought it up...... grin

Not

Last edited by Not2fun; 10/21/10 07:29 PM.

" If you couldn't change your partner when you were together, you sure aren't going to now that you aren't together..." Words of the teacher of the court mandated parenting class...and the ONE thing that stuck out to me!!!
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Not2fun] #13063
10/23/10 12:11 AM
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how does one figure out that keylogger has been installed on their computer?

D4MIL

Re: Spying 201 [Re: D4MIL] #13070
10/23/10 12:48 AM
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There are some spyware programs that CLAIM to be able to find keyloggers. And there are keyloggers that SWEAR they cannot be found. Obviously one or the other is lying through their teeth.

What operating system do you have?

Last edited by Larry; 10/23/10 12:49 AM.

It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #13077
10/23/10 01:11 AM
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i have windows vista. i know .. frown

Re: Spying 201 [Re: D4MIL] #13183
10/23/10 12:17 PM
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Click the start button down at the lower left of your screen. Type msconfig in the box at the bottom. A program will appear. Click on the tab that says startup and read the program listing.

See anything odd?


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #13218
10/23/10 03:15 PM
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nothing unusual. i checked task manager and clicked 'show all tasks from all users' and nothing unusual.


Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #13221
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Do as Larry indicated above but also look at the <Services> tab. Be sure you are seeing all TSRs and programs that load before your machine is done booting. Open the task switcher and look at the <Processes> tab. Write down every process that is running on the machine. Be careful that you use upper case only where it is clearly indicated.

Now open your browser and go to Google and type in the name of the first process. Read a couple of links to see if it is a normal part of the Windows environment or something that has been added to the boot path. Repeat until each process has been identified. Even some Windows components can be halted without disrupting the operation of the machine for certain things. Be very careful about disabling various processes and if the machine should lock up simply reboot and everything should return to the way it was.

Once a process has been identified as part of a key-logger or other spy program or spy-bot, it can be researched to find out how to remove it entirely. Rest assured you are not the only person who has ever encountered it. Having had to clean up after various people have loaded "cute" crap onto the machines at work, I can tell you that even the most persistent virus can be eradicated manually if you are willing to put in the time. I have removed some very interesting things from our network over the last few years.


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Mark1952] #13225
10/23/10 03:29 PM
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I was spoon feeding you and Mark has accurately described the next steps. What he said smile

And report back.


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #13918
10/26/10 02:37 PM
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so far nothing unusual. i checked any strange program that didn't have a description.

follow up question .. what do you do when reverse lookup on a phone number reveals an unlisted number?


Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #20892
11/13/10 04:18 AM
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How do you get a google password on a gmail?

and voice activated recorders, do they run on batteries? Do they send the information or do you get them and they are like a tape recorder?

Also, how do you view facebook blocked pages.

Mommy I want to be a hacker after I've reached middle age.

yes I am in nc, I am interested in spying you told me to stay busy

tink

Last edited by tinkerbell; 11/13/10 04:18 AM.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: D4MIL] #20896
11/13/10 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: DumpedforMIL
so far nothing unusual. i checked any strange program that didn't have a description.

follow up question .. what do you do when reverse lookup on a phone number reveals an unlisted number?



Sorry for the very late reply. I do not have this thread set up to notify me.

There are services you must pay to get you that information. I do not know of a reputable one, but there may be. Perhaps someone else knows.


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #20897
11/13/10 04:39 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii1tc493bZM

tink

have I flipped? I have been looking up all kinds of music on youtube, next...showtunes

Last edited by tinkerbell; 11/13/10 04:42 AM.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: ] #20899
11/13/10 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: tinkerbell
How do you get a google password on a gmail?

and voice activated recorders, do they run on batteries? Do they send the information or do you get them and they are like a tape recorder?

Also, how do you view facebook blocked pages.

Mommy I want to be a hacker after I've reached middle age.

yes I am in nc, I am interested in spying you told me to stay busy

tink


I do not know of a service that can actually get a gmail password. I have seen reports of one that can crack Yahoo. A lot is human engineering. But you have to be careful. Go in once or twice a day and try passwords you think might work. No more or you will be tapped for attempted theft.

VARs work with batteries and usually tape. Tape is good because you can exchange tapes and go listen while leaving the recorder in place.

Google how to get into blocked facebook. You might find a way. If you see one that is interesting, let me know and I will take a look as well and see if it has the potential to work.


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #20906
11/13/10 04:51 AM
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haha I googled it and came up with a site where people are putting email accounts and asking for the passwords.

And then, what to do if you got in.

I think I should be reading a book, instead of activities I might have to explain later behind a glass window.

Although I didn't do anything. Ok am done, am in nc.

tink

Last edited by tinkerbell; 11/13/10 04:51 AM.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #20915
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRGCFAvzKhc

I have a feeling the entire time you are on this site your computer is being read, I feel I should run defender now.

Can you see what you think?

tink

Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #20917
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http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ws-commons-dev/200606.mbox/%3C4cb91c480606131017u15e7b1f0u70ea58a0b7bcf4b@mail.gmail.com%3E

Ok, is this for real? I think maybe the email they say to send with your own password might be to a hacker.....

tink

Re: Spying 201 [Re: ] #20923
11/13/10 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: tinkerbell
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ws-commons-dev/200606.mbox/%3C4cb91c480606131017u15e7b1f0u70ea58a0b7bcf4b@mail.gmail.com%3E

Ok, is this for real? I think maybe the email they say to send with your own password might be to a hacker.....

tink


Don't do it


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #20986
11/13/10 02:17 PM
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There are huge differences between snooping to find out if your partner is having an affair and snooping for the sake of snooping.

The first is generally supported by "Common wisdom" that a Lawyer might have fun with in court through attacking you, but lose to a Jury and the second is an absolutely loser of a case.

In other words, stifle your curiosity. The cause for snooping is over; you know he is having an affair. Beyond that, snooping can get you in a bunch of trouble and make you look bad should you get caught.


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #21015
11/13/10 03:37 PM
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I ran defender, nothing was put on my computer looking at those sites......

Truth goes a long way, thinking back to the good old days when I hadn't a worry and rock solid was our foudation and truth and no walls all of it.....

and this

this is stupid, a stupid way to live, I will live in truth and sit here in nc and if mr. evil wants to keep doing this, well

this is stupid, I don't want to live thinking is that the truth? who is that? etc.

this nc is just what I need to stop this crazyness.......

Your discussion brought up all this you know, and it is very informative.

Do you know what this is like, I will tell you. That show The Newlywed Game, the old ones esp....ok they never really know their partner.

This with the affairs, it is like that show. Trying to I am sure there are those that are trying to, be on the password remember thing trying to guess what is the favorite book or historical person and ........it is like that show, only not funny, and irritating, because if all the mrs. and mr. evils hadn't gone deep into the fog and lost their minds, we would know those answers and in that fog, what could that book be, or that historical person be?

Before A - A Painted House
After A - Workout Core Secrets of Hollywood

Before A - Patton
After A - Pee Wee Herman

tink

Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #25260
11/20/10 03:31 PM
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Here is a cheap GPS with bird's eye view of location - its a child locator = throw it somewhere in the trunk under a rag - very easy to hide. costs around $50

Best Buy Insignia Little Buddy


Me:51
W: 51
Married: 30 yrs
2 Sons (28 & 22)
1 Dtr (18)
1 GDtr (1) raising her
rwinger5@gmail.com
Re: Spying 201 [Re: rwinger] #25432
11/20/10 07:16 PM
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Is e-Blaster illegal?

I am very worried about this. My spouse originally agreed to the monitoring but he is now saying he doesn't recall agreeing to it.

I just found this on Wikipedia:

Quote:
Illegal

Some of Spectorsoft's tools, especially eBlaster can be used for criminal activities, and there have been several convictions for such misuse. Spectorsoft software contains an EULA[19] which specifies installation must only be on machines owned by the licensee. The EULA also indicates that SpectorSoft will only cooperate with law enforcement when compelled to do so.
[edit] Spouses

Spectorsoft has marketed its spy software to people wanting to catch their spouses cheating[20]. However, in the face of criminal charges and negative publicity, Spectorsoft no longer markets its products to spouses[21]. There is however nothing to stop a spouse from using the products illegally.

For example, a man from Michigan who installed eBlaster on a partner's personal computer was charged with four felony counts, facing up to five years in prison and $19,000 in fines. [22].


Here's the link from the reference:

OMG! Please read this.

Click me

Last edited by Chris; 11/22/10 12:38 PM.

ChrisInNOVA2@yahoo.com
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Chris] #25437
11/20/10 07:28 PM
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I may have jumped the gun. We both live together & we both own all computers in the home. We jointly pay for all expenses including Cable & Internet. So, what I did was basically install a program on a computer which I own.

That man and his wife were estranged & living separately.

Still - I would like to see what the legal eagles here have to say.

Should we be snooping in this way? Can we get into trouble for doing it?


ChrisInNOVA2@yahoo.com
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Chris] #25457
11/20/10 08:00 PM
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Here's some other stuff I found which is of concern:

http://www.gruberlaw.biz/pdf/spying-on-spouse.pdf

http://marriage.about.com/od/trustissues/a/spying.htm
Very surface level and easy to understand writing but it summarizes the point nicely in a way which contradicts Harley's teachings:
Quote:
Bottom Line
If you've reached a point of believing you have to spy on your spouse, is there enough love and trust left in your marriage for it to survive?


http://www.anonequity.org/weblog/archives/2007/09/for_better_for_worse_or_until.php

Read this one!--> http://www.iwanyshyn.com/CM/Articles/Marital-Cybertort.pdf

Last edited by Chris; 11/20/10 08:01 PM.

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Re: Spying 201 [Re: Chris] #25459
11/20/10 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Snooping on Your Mate: Finding the Truth or a Criminal Act?

Your instincts may tell you your partner's up to no good, but does your suspicion give you carte blanche to operate a home-based spy operation? Apparently, a lot of people think so. Thirty-six percent of married adults admitted to surreptitiously looking at a partner's texts or e-mails in a Retrevo.com study. A similar study by an Australian mobile phone provider showed that one-third of cell phone users read another's text messages without permission, with women more likely than men to snoop. Forty-five percent of the snoopers in the Australian study reported finding flirtatious or sexual texts. But there are downsides to snooping on a partner, whether it confirms a suspicion or not.

Snooping can be a relationship-killer. The act of snooping breaks trust in a relationship. California marriage therapist Jay Slupesky said in an MSNBC Redtape interview that therapy addresses a partner's concerns about infidelity more effectively than spying.

When snooping becomes active rather than passive, it may lead to legal complications. Audio-taping another person without consent is illegal in many jurisdictions. Not only will such tapes prove useless in divorce court, they may land the party who secretly created the tapes in legal hot water.

If a spouse discovers pornography and decides to print a copy, or transmit a copy to counsel, therapist or friend, that, too, can lead to legal troubles. Both possession and transmission of child pornography are prohibited under federal law, and someone accessing Internet porn has no means of verifying the age of the subject in the pornographic images.

Installing spy software involves murky legal issues, particularly where a computer is jointly owned property. Installing spyware on a computer belonging to someone else is illegal, but when it comes to family computers, the issue of ownership is often blurry. What one spouse considers private property may legally be marital property owned by the spouses in common and vice versa.

Understanding federal law and the laws in your state is essential to knowing your rights whether you are the spy or the spied-upon spouse. Before you start snooping for possible infidelities of your spouse, speak to an experienced attorney first. A lawyer can explain your rights and best options available to you under the law.


Source: http://www.divorcepage.com/CM/Articles/Finding-the-Truth-ora-Criminal-Act.asp


ChrisInNOVA2@yahoo.com
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Chris] #29435
11/28/10 07:44 PM
11/28/10 07:44 PM
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Jeez.

Is someone going to address this or do I ned to get a person who is well-liked on forum to post the question?


ChrisInNOVA2@yahoo.com
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Chris] #29465
11/28/10 08:38 PM
11/28/10 08:38 PM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
I'm sorry. I never look here much.

My take is that there is something to be said for snooping and NOT finding anything. If I snoop and nothing is there, I am probably not going to do much more snooping. However, if I snoop and find something.....well, apparently I was right to be suspicious.

It would be interesting to see how many cases there have been where the snooping spouse really did incur consequences for finding something. Well, not for finding something, but how many people make a legal stink about being snooped on because it brought to light something they had no business doing anyway.

My brother had some really problems with underage alcohol and stuff in HS. part of mom and Dad's tough love was hauling him to get a blood test any time they were suspicious. Funny....the only times he got mad about being tested was when he WAS drinking.....

Re: Spying 201 [Re: herfuturesbright] #29466
11/28/10 08:42 PM
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I read that a woman tried to sue her phone company for inadvertently revealing her affair to her H.

IDK...the stories here about people getting arrested for spying are scary to me. I would like to know the truth.



ChrisInNOVA2@yahoo.com
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Chris] #29482
11/28/10 09:06 PM
11/28/10 09:06 PM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
I have to say it makes the "justice" oriented part of me mad. They cheat and then the betrayed spouse gets in trouble for finding out???

I know that MB had a lot of spying resources as well as some input from attorneys. I never had to do that so I didn't read much of it.

Re: Spying 201 [Re: herfuturesbright] #29510
11/28/10 10:05 PM
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Larry Offline OP
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To the best of my knowledge, the only input from Lawyers on MB was by a Tax Attorney who was not necessarily qualified to speculate on the liability of snooping.

I would say that Seeks or johnstwin would be the best two sources on here for the question. Seeks is usually very responsive to legal questions. She likes to answer, usually.

Larry



Last edited by Larry; 11/28/10 11:05 PM.

It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #29523
11/28/10 11:10 PM
11/28/10 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Audio-taping another person without consent is illegal in many jurisdictions.


This is true. In Texas, it is, last I checked, illegal to tape record a conversation without the other party's consent for any "tortious or other injurious purpose."

Quote:
Both possession and transmission of child pornography are prohibited under federal law



This is true. If in doubt, call the district attorneys' office as opposed to the police.

Quote:
Installing spyware on a computer belonging to someone else is illegal.


Also true, a point I tried and failed to make on the other site. I found the wholesale recommendation to install keyloggers legally alarming.

I think the other point that is being occasionally missed is that should the couple end up in divorce court, the spying spouse can be painted as some deranged revenge driven lunatic who has no respect whatsoever for privacy or is so intent on securing custody there are no lines they will not cross. Given the right set of facts, I could easily paint the spying spouse in such a light that the finder of fact might well conclude "I don't blame the cheating spouse one bit for wanting to get away from that controlling whack job."

Not saying it's right -- just that there is risk.

Please don't shoot the messenger!


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: LadyGrey] #29991
11/30/10 12:30 AM
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SB, I was basically bullied into installing that keylogger.


ChrisInNOVA2@yahoo.com
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Chris] #30100
11/30/10 06:28 AM
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Chris, that may or may not have been the right thing to do for you. Every single situation is different, and I hope that the decision to so that brought you some peace. I don't know your story, although you are on my list of people I am going to research for sure!

I will say this though. The first I heard that such a thing as a keylogger existed was on another site when it was suggested to me that offering to have a keylogger installed on my computer was an essential part of just compensation.

I actually did offer the keylogger, with a very dim understanding of what that meant and the certain knowledge that he would not openly accept it. After reading on that site for a few more weeks, I devoted the better part of a week researching how I could tell whether he had put a keylogger on without my knowledge. I asked him if he had (he said no), then based upon what I read on that site, I went back and looked at every credit card and bank statement for the last six months for anything inexplicable, then I downloaded four different software programs which promised to tell me if there was a keylogger present. That was what I did for the entire month of August. I was on a seekingbalance mission, and when I get on a mission, ain't no stopping me. For an entire critical month, instead of trying to talk to him, I tried to figure out if he was spying on me.

Mistrust piled on mistrust piled on mistrust.

I HAD to know that the relationship between me and my words was safe, and here, on this laptop, is where my words live.

Had my H chosen to install a keylogger, I would have completely stopped journaling (HUGE for me) and, more importantly, researching on, much less posting on marriage support websites. I would have been even more isolated than I already am.

Had he chosen to do so without my consent, there is no way he could have maintained "not knowing". And I can't imagine how I would have dealt with it.

I was recently advised on that same site that the fact that I would not offer and would decline a request to take a polygraph was proof positive that either (1) I am a liar, and/or (2) I am not 100% committed to recovering my M and oh, her poor husband probably is being tricked thinking she has changed.

I'm a tad stronger now so those words didn't much impact me. He knows the truth to the extent he wants to, and I am SO committed to recovering my M that I actually found the suggestion otherwise humorous.

Every situation is different. There is no one size fits all when it comes to anything related to marriage. In some cases, a keylogger may be a good weapon in the arsenal. In other cases, a keylogger will be a shot in the marital foot.

The trick is to take the time and understand the nuance enough to give the poster the information to make the subtle judgements involved, trust that they know their situation well enough to exercise that judgement for the best interests of their marriage, and nudge them if you think the poster is blind to something you see as obvious.

So, for me, had my H shown up at a site (pause to stop laughing) and been more or less commanded to install a keylogger on my computer or else it was clear to the site that he was completely unwilling to man up and do what was needed to save his M, well, for us, that would have been seriously bad advice. I think my H would have tried to explain the intimate relationship between me and my words, which he totally understands, but that would have been drowned out in the agenda.

Maybe I should post this on Peer Counseling instead of here.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: LadyGrey] #30104
11/30/10 07:55 AM
11/30/10 07:55 AM
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Larry Offline OP
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You're doing fine Seeks wink

I have been around the world of keyloggers for years. And I have seen a lot of bad and a lot of good advice concerning them.

They are of limited utility and when needed, should be used and then discarded like the kleenex they are.

In my own limited understanding, they are useful in determining if there is or isn't an affair. If there is an affair, what details are discovered that might aid in busting it up. Finally, is the affair over?

Exploring the development of thought processes is eat up with misunderstanding as someone works to get their head on straight.

People go through all sorts of mental convolutions as they try to cope with reality and use whatever tools they have or acquire along the way to help. A keylogger is only going to be a snapshot and that is just a moment in time that does not measure where that same person will be five minutes from now.

And thus only serves to screw things up, in my opinion.

Last edited by Larry; 12/12/10 04:42 PM.

It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #30151
11/30/10 02:30 PM
11/30/10 02:30 PM
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{{{SB}}}


ChrisInNOVA2@yahoo.com
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Chris] #34561
12/12/10 04:43 PM
12/12/10 04:43 PM
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Time to bottom line this thread.

The best book for the subject at hand is found at:

http://www.ultimatebetrayal.com/

Buy it and read it.

I am locking the thread in preparation for collating and developing content. If anyone wants to add something, drop me a PM.

The end.

Larry

Last edited by Larry; 12/12/10 04:45 PM.

It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #44287
01/03/11 08:48 PM
01/03/11 08:48 PM
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believer Offline
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Some Good Info on Polygraphs

Saw this on SI and got permission to copy it. I thought it might go with the spying stuff.

I INSISTED that my husband take a polygraph. He claimed that it was "only" an EA. That there was absolutely no sex or physical contact and no "I love you" exchanged. He confessed the situation. I did not know in advance and probably would never have known without his confession.

The exam is only as good as the examiner administrating it. I chose person that had trained the RCMP for 30 years.

Although my husband tried to delay taking the exam because it EMBARRASSED him he took it and passed it with flying colours. He had not had any physical contact with her. He had never told her, or had her tell him that they loved each other. He had never had any other relationship in the 20+ years of our marriage.

I wrote the questions. There were approximately 12 of them. You do need to know WHAT KINDS OF THINGS YOU CAN ASK. They have to be "Yes" or "No" based questions. You cannot ask anything speculative such as, "Are you ever going to cheat on me again?" It has to be something that has already happened and is fact based.

Examples of valid questions are:

1. Did you have sex with X?
2. Did you kiss X?
3. Did you tell X that you loved her?
4. Were you going to leave me?
5. Did you lie about any of the details of this relationship?
6. Have you ever cheated on me before?

Examples of questions that you CANNOT ask are:

1. Why did you cheat on me?
2. Will you ever cheat on me again?
3. Are you in love with me?
4. How many times did you? (kiss, have sex..whatever)
5. Can I trust you?

Now, my husband passed his test. I had told him that if he failed any questions that our marriage was over. I meant it. I am STILL hurt and angry
over it FOUR YEARS later, and his EA was not as bad as many that I have read about. Still, even an EA that was confessed to without discovery or any physical contact or expressions of love still is betrayal and it is heartbreaking. I KNEW that I would NEVER have been able to reconcile had it been physical or had he told her that he loved her. Many people on this site HAVE been able to move forward with reconciliation after a PA has been discovered. They are the true heros on this site. I don't have that much forgiveness in me, but that is ME.

I have been consulted by many people on this site because of my successful use of the polygraph. I have referred others to my examiner. Sadly, for most people, this is NOT possible as he is located in Ontario, Canada.

I have to warn you, WhyMe87, that WS's who PASS the polygraph are few and far between. In fact, none of the people that contacted me have had their spouses pass the test. I am sure that there ARE other spouses who have passed, but they are not the ones that have been in contact with me. I had one person's BS contact me and when he failed the FIRST time, he swore that the polygraph was WRONG. He took it again and FAILED. He took it again and FAILED. He had three different examiners and he failed all three exams. The WH insisted that all the tests were wrong. The BS finally accepted that her BH was lying and ended the marriage.

Sadly, what others say is true and that is that the BS will often wait until minutes before the polygraph and THEN confess some details. If that happens, I would advise you to make sure that the test is carried forth with modified questions. There is ALWAYS more than what is confessed at the last minute. My husband did NOT change her story at all. I was WAITING for him to do it but he didn't and he did pass. He still was unfaithful, but he did fully disclose everything.

Cheaters are also LIARS—all of them. PERIOD. My husband has LIED to me, but it was not about the EA. (((sigh)))

As for him BEATING the exam—don't count on that. LOL My examiner was BRILLIANT. He made sure that my husband KNEW that he would get caught if he lied by doing this simple test. He had a list of numbers on cards from 1-10. He asked my husband to pick a card and then to respond, "No" to him every single time that the examiner asked him IF the number was the one that he chose. Then, he SHOWED my husband the results and my husband could see for himself that the chartings went INSANE when he LIED about the number. All other nine numbers had very identical readings, but the time that he LIED stuck out like a sore thumb.

The only people that pass with a great examiner are people that are psychopaths and people that drug themselves almost to oblivion.

So, IF you have a good examiner and NOT one that took a weekend course on how to administer the polygraph, you should be fine.

I was VERY HAPPY that I had my husband submit to the polygraph. It was the best $500 that HE ever spent. What... you didn't expect ME to pay for it, did you?

Finally, I will say to you what I have said all the people that have come to me asking my experience with polygraph and that is to hope for the best but to TRULY PREPARE FOR THE WORST. I hope that your husband passes, WhyMe87. You need to figure out what you will do, however, if he does not. Even if he passes, it is still very hard to move beyond—but many people do.

Cyber Hugs,

Totally Faithful
_________________________


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Spying 201 [Re: believer] #109872
05/23/11 10:15 AM
05/23/11 10:15 AM
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BUMPITY BUMP


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Spying 201 [Re: Lil] #111038
05/25/11 09:14 AM
05/25/11 09:14 AM
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Lil Offline

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Hmm, just thinking it is time to move this out of construction


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Spying 201 [Re: Lil] #117297
06/07/11 02:56 AM
06/07/11 02:56 AM
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I agree Lil....

I got some info but this thread seems hard to find for those needing the info....

Not


" If you couldn't change your partner when you were together, you sure aren't going to now that you aren't together..." Words of the teacher of the court mandated parenting class...and the ONE thing that stuck out to me!!!
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Not2fun] #136425
07/18/11 09:19 AM
07/18/11 09:19 AM
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Lil Offline

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http://www.spytic.com/user/default.aspx

Site claims "Copy9 download free software
in the phone monitor. Locate and view reports SMS, calls, url from your computer."

It then goes on to suggest uses including:
Individuals

* You think about your lost or stolen mobile phone.
* Locate it for free.
* Make a backup of your device data.


Professionals.

* Install the software on the phones in your business and locate in real time worldwide.
* Make sure your phone bills are justified for business use.
Parents

* Have your children going home after school? Consult their GPS position to be sure.
* Perform parental control internet sites visited from the phone.
* Keep track of messages exchanged, which can sometimes be dangerous.


I havent tried it, if someone does, please write a review. It could be a good tool


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Spying 201 [Re: Lil] #136929
07/19/11 12:41 PM
07/19/11 12:41 PM
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Larry Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: lildoggie
Hmm, just thinking it is time to move this out of construction


We have a sort of commitment from Manette - whatever her last name is, to do a guest thing here. She wrote the book on spying, so this article is in limbo until she does or does not make an appearance. Jury is still out.

Larry


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #151826
08/29/11 02:42 PM
08/29/11 02:42 PM
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I have some information to add to this thread as it pertains to my personal experience in my divorce, if you are still interested, Larry. And, since I've been able to use the information to obtain financial recovery in my divorce, I can document it for you, if you still want it. But, I need some time.
Just let me know.


I thank God for all the times he saved my life, for putting all the people in my path who helped save it, and all the other people I met along the way.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: poet] #151833
08/29/11 02:57 PM
08/29/11 02:57 PM
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P.S. I tried to go back to the place where I found this thread. There was another thread right below it that said, "more on spying," which I wanted to read. But now I can't find it. Any suggestions on how to find it?


I thank God for all the times he saved my life, for putting all the people in my path who helped save it, and all the other people I met along the way.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: poet] #152029
08/30/11 12:06 AM
08/30/11 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: poet1
P.S. I tried to go back to the place where I found this thread. There was another thread right below it that said, "more on spying," which I wanted to read. But now I can't find it. Any suggestions on how to find it?
The MA Directory


Chrysalis
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Larry] #237482
06/03/12 08:58 PM
06/03/12 08:58 PM
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Lil Offline

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Originally Posted By: Larry
Originally Posted By: lildoggie
Hmm, just thinking it is time to move this out of construction


We have a sort of commitment from Manette - whatever her last name is, to do a guest thing here. She wrote the book on spying, so this article is in limbo until she does or does not make an appearance. Jury is still out.

Larry


So, nearly 12 months later, can we say she may NOT be showing up?
grin


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Spying 201 [Re: Lil] #237566
06/04/12 11:35 AM
06/04/12 11:35 AM
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Wonderland
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If I knew what spying 101 was, I might be able to help. Sneaky SOB that I am!


Accept what is,
Let go of what was
and have faith in what will be.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: 20yrsdone] #237577
06/04/12 12:40 PM
06/04/12 12:40 PM
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Can you point me to 101?


Accept what is,
Let go of what was
and have faith in what will be.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: 20yrsdone] #237688
06/04/12 08:30 PM
06/04/12 08:30 PM
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Tongue in cheek reference to MB's spying 101 thread. When this thread was started, MA was still primarily made up of former MB members


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Spying 201 [Re: Lil] #237697
06/04/12 09:02 PM
06/04/12 09:02 PM
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Link?


Accept what is,
Let go of what was
and have faith in what will be.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: 20yrsdone] #237981
06/05/12 09:33 PM
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AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Spying 201 [Re: Lil] #238032
06/06/12 02:00 AM
06/06/12 02:00 AM
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Thanks much Lil Doggie. I'll work on something.


Accept what is,
Let go of what was
and have faith in what will be.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Lil] #291617
04/14/13 05:54 PM
04/14/13 05:54 PM
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I wanted to bookmark this thread about installing keyloggers. I have no idea what they are even talking about, but it all sounds very geeky -

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=492868&AP=1


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Spying 201 [Re: believer] #291619
04/14/13 05:56 PM
04/14/13 05:56 PM
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Especially this -
Thats why a hardware keylogger is the way to go. It is not installed in the computer at all.
See this video for how it works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6JYt5LaaS0

Second I doubt very much anyone could actually memorize their registry it is far to complex. Odd that he digs through it so much. If your SO uses a laptop than your best bet is Spector Pro http://www.eblaster.com/spectorpro.html

Man it would be hard for anyone to find that thing, and I would think it would take months for even a trained IT guy to notice so at least you could get a few months of history.

As far as internet explorer history, he most likely is using inPrivate browsing to block his browsing habits from his history. Look at big gaps in time in his history while you know he is using it. To turn it off and on click the gear in the upper right corner of IE then click safety and then inPrivate browsing and then nothing gets recorded. Chrome is a similar feature only it is called incognito. Let me know if you need more help.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=492868&AP=1




"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Spying 201 [Re: believer] #292792
04/21/13 03:50 PM
04/21/13 03:50 PM
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Here's a cheap way to track a car by GPS. You can get a free app, download it to a smartphone and put it under the seat in a car.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fsp.android.c&hl=en

It took this poster all of 30 minutes to find her husband with the OW.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=493799


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Spying 201 [Re: believer] #325891
12/07/13 07:17 PM
12/07/13 07:17 PM
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poet Offline
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It occurred to me that I never posted about my discoveries on this thread. How serendipitous! Now I will as I was able to procure $12,500 in my divorce, on my spying efforts alone. That's a nice chunk of change, in any stretch of the imagination.

It also occurs to me, however, that not everyone has the same inner strength, access, willingness or gumption, tenacity and/or possible fortuitousness to follow through with what is almost certainly going to turn out to be an extremely painful experience.

So, I'll start with a warning. This is not for the faint of heart. If you believe you are strong enough to endure the truth, read on.

Since mine was rather complicated, I'll do this is steps to make it easier for the reader. Some steps could be skipped in your particular situation, since you may have already done so, or you don't need it:

Step 1:

Check his cellphone contact list (I will use the pronoun, he or his, throughout since mine was the husband). When I finally did, there were no less than 30 female contacts on his list.

If you find any, don't call them, unless you want your spouse to know that he is busted. I did call and got hung up on more than once. It also alerted him that I was in the process of finding out things he couldn't admit to himself, let alone others.

Step: 2

Get his email password if you can. My ex's was right on the desk, next to my computer. I literally didn't know what it was. It had me stumped because he was one of those con-artist people who lived a double life. He had me believing that he was not on the Internet at all, had no email addresses and didn't use the computer. I knew it was his handwriting, however, so shoved the paper into the pencil holder next to the computer and left it there for a year before I ever used it.

There was a time (and I can't remember if it was before or after) when I was trying different passwords and user names, to no avail).

Note: A long time ago, one spouse was convicted of stalking her unfaithful spouse for using his password, in another state. But, it only happened once, that I know of. At least that is the only time I've ever heard of it, and actually is was just about the same time I was using his. But none of my attorneys, three in all ever mentioned it as wrong or illegal here. In fact, they all kept it a secret with me up until it was necessary to reveal.

Step 3:

If it is close to the time of your separation, and you have a key, go to his residence and look for anything suspicious. In my case, we owned a travel trailer together, and he took it and moved to an RV park, when he left.

In my case, I found a very suspicious-looking receipt, sitting on the kitchen table, with a paper-wait on top of it. I had no idea what it was, but it said "Green Dot" on the receipt and had a long number on this receipt. I copied down the number and kept it in a special place at home (didn't want him finding it as he still had the house key). I replaced the receipt so he wouldn't know I had been there.

I also found his cell phone, in a drawer. It had been turned off, and I was stumped. It wasn't until later on that month, when I was there again, in his company, and saw three cellphones sitting on the counter. That is when I realized he had the original one for me and a special ones for "the others."

Note: Be careful at this juncture. This is when I got beat up badly by him.

Step 4:

If you have the key to his vehicle, make sure to check it at an opportune time, when he is not aware that you are there. It was during one of these visits, when I happened to pass by while he was grocery shopping that I found more passwords, and more numbers.

Over the period of three years, I eventually collected seven numbers from those "Green Dot" receipts. (We were separated three and a half years before the divorce was final).

I had done a Google search and found out that a "Green Dot" card is a prepaid credit card. While most people use them to shop, and/or rent videos at Red box, or make purchases on the Internet, they are also used by PROSTITUTES and their Johns.

I read the VERY long disclaimer on the Green Dot site and discovered that, while they are often used for legitimate reasons, they also reserved the right to release your information in the case of legal and criminal matters. HA! That was very good for me (and you) to know.

Note: I told this story to a male friend that I'm not (thankfully) romantically involved with, not too terribly long ago. And, when I got to the part about obtaining his Green Dot numbers, my "friend" said, "He left a paper trail? That was so stupid. Never leave a paper trail." I Yi Yi.... the friends we find?????!!!!

Step 5:

Check his email accounts if you can. And, continue checking them while the separation and divorce is going on.

After finding one thread of emails that he had saved, to one of his paramours, I showed it to my girlfriend (gf). This particular set of emails was over a year old. My gf was a good sounding board. She helped me see that he "really liked" her. It was a description of how he wanted to get together with her, but she was unwilling or unable because she needed money for gas and rent and electric and phone. She itemized the monthly costs -- in a list -- in the email she wrote to him. He wrote back that he would be able to pay for her electric and gas, which was a couple of hundred dollars.

I printed that email out and saved it in my "special" spot with all the other emails that had anything to do with money or finances.

There were others, of course, too many to list. But you get the idea, right?

Step 6:

When it came time to use the Greed Dot numbers, I was not using an attorney, which was both good and bad for me. I was able to subpoena the Green Dot records, for a minimal cost of less then a few hundred dollars (can't remember the cost off the top of my head).

It revealed close to a hundred thousand dollars transferred to one woman's personal Green Dot card. He could've argued that anyone could have given her the money, but my attorney (during the deposition) explained that we had several of his numbers as well, and could place him in the general area (she called them "his stompin' grounds).

This, mind you, was only with one of the women. We had other evidence as well, which he did not dispute. We only went for $25,000 as this was the amount my attorney said she could "prove." She later came back to me, after it was all over and said, "Oh, and I found another email in his stack"(the one I outlined above). She was not a very good attorney, but the only one I could find that was not afraid to go through with the prostitution/marital waste clause. There were a few others who I know would have done it. But, their fees were out of my ballpark, sadly.

Back to what I was saying...

My attorney came to me after having a short discussion with his attorney that day. And, she said his attorney agreed to the $25,000 dollars, and was "shaking in her boots."

The reason for this is that my HUSBAND did not tell his attorney about his addiction. And, my attorney informed me that he was still denying it all the way up to the day we got the divorce.

I suspect he's still in denial, and we've been divorced now for two and a half (2 1/2) years.

Note: I live in Florida, which is an "equitable distribution" state. One of the divorce clauses says that any "marital assets" which includes money, is subject to Marital Waste, if it can be proven. Marital Waste is any wasted money by one spouse who uses the marital money for one of three addictions: Sex, Drugs or Gambling. In the case of marital waste, the betrayed spouse is entitled to half of the money wasted, in my case it was the sex addiction that obviously, was key.

There now. This is my contribution to the Spying 101 thread. Happy reading!


I thank God for all the times he saved my life, for putting all the people in my path who helped save it, and all the other people I met along the way.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: poet] #326024
12/09/13 04:37 PM
12/09/13 04:37 PM
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A keylogger was literally a life changing $100 purchase for me. I was TERRIFIED of installing it...my XH is a programmer and I just knew he would instantly know what I had done. He had his lap top in a hard case briefcase...'locked' but he was lazy and had failed to roll the number one time so I knew what the code was.

The single biggest thing that I did that was helpful was to continue to collect evidence for WEEKS after I discovered the affair. This enabled me to find proof that he had indeed also had an affair with my cousin 7 years prior to him being busted for the affair with his co-worker. I cannot stress how difficult this was because I had a 9 year old child to continue caring for, as well as pretend like nothing was wrong and at the same time refuse sex without setting off his suspicions...it was a crazy time. True to what I had been told though, he was too deep in his affair fog to notice anything I was doing. Toward the end of my survellience period I began to play little games just to see if I could make him realize he was busted. He was clueless.

Re: Spying 201 [Re: SmilingWife] #326026
12/09/13 04:41 PM
12/09/13 04:41 PM
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One mistake I made was trying to hire a PI out of the phone book. Big mistake and he was a huge waste of my time. I ended up not paying him a dime. I would have had he pressed the issue, but honestly he was worthless....oh wait I remember now I asked him for a written report of what he had discovered and he never produced it so I never paid.

My attorney told me if I had asked him he would have recommended a good one...I didn't even think of that. Naturally a divorce attorney would know who the good PIs are. Duh.

The good news is I was able to gather enough evidence on my own it didn't matter. I identified the OW, her husband, her parents. Her BW was a huge help to me...he gave me her address (she had recently left him and he didn't know she was having an affair) and her parents address.

Re: Spying 201 [Re: SmilingWife] #326279
12/11/13 07:40 PM
12/11/13 07:40 PM
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Getting back to the GreenDot card, how to spy on it and how to recover from its discovery, it is important to know that if you happen to be in the invisible part of the MA population where people don't know about it or don't care about it because it is not "part of their world," please don't get discouraged.

You CAN recover from it. It takes a while, but if you're a strong person and you have strong boundaries, you will overcome any hurtful or hateful comments.

It was extremely painful for me to discover that:

(1). This world even existed. I shouldn't have had to know about these things.

(2). This world had now become a part of my world.

(3). Most people won't even acknowledge it, let alone try to console you, the victim, in spite of it.

People are just not built that way. It takes a mountain of understanding to understand how a victim would feel in light of the knowledge that her spouse has not only cheated on her, but has done so, in such a way as to alienate others from her life; to put her own life at risk and to cast her into a pool of invisible victims who neither understand what happened nor how to begin to heal.

But, it can be done. Peace!


I thank God for all the times he saved my life, for putting all the people in my path who helped save it, and all the other people I met along the way.
Re: Spying 201 [Re: poet] #326394
12/12/13 07:58 PM
12/12/13 07:58 PM
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Telly Offline
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Quote:
Be careful at this juncture. This is when I got beat up badly by him.


Oh Poet.

I am so sorry this happened to you and that all the things were so terribly ugly for you. I'm also glad you are not married to him anymore.

I confess I'm one of those people who has been pretty ignorant of the kind of ugliness your ex. imposed on your life.

Thank you for sharing a few things you learned from that awful time that might be helpful for others.

I'm wondering if you might think about writing an article about the "ugly underbelly" of certain kinds of infidelity or something...

Just a thought.

Glad you're back.


Married 13 years
D10
D5
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Telly] #343091
04/05/14 11:41 PM
04/05/14 11:41 PM
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Here's spyware for the phone that seems to be good -

http://www.mspy.com/features.html?gclid=CJb9j5TByr0CFUFufgod2nAA-A

Not only does it show you texts and phone calls, but records the surrounding conversations -

"I found a feature on the spyware that allows me to record his surroundings for intervals of 30 minutes per hour. I set it up to record just the night time hours and I've already caught the following exchanges.

1. "My wife has gained so much weight. I wish I could show you guys a picture of how hot she use to be " (um...I just had a baby and I'm still very slender)

2. I heard him flirting with a stripper and they giggled about both being married.

3. He had a random conversation with a man at the bar who told my husband his story of being unfaithful and losing the love of his life...his wife. My husband said...well your real mistake was getting caught.

4. Much talk of sexually vulgar things with his buddies.

I feel like it's just not enough to leave him. Oh my goodness...how did I get here? I have no respect for myself and clearly he doesn't respect me either. Is this man flawed on a character deep level or do all men act like this when their partners aren't around? All the guys with him were speaking multiple times on sexual affair type things and they're all married too."

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=527424

Last edited by believer; 04/05/14 11:42 PM.

"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Spying 201 [Re: believer] #343208
04/07/14 02:16 AM
04/07/14 02:16 AM
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SmilingWife Offline
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Originally Posted By: believer
Here's spyware for the phone that seems to be good -

http://www.mspy.com/features.html?gclid=CJb9j5TByr0CFUFufgod2nAA-A

Not only does it show you texts and phone calls, but records the surrounding conversations -

"I found a feature on the spyware that allows me to record his surroundings for intervals of 30 minutes per hour. I set it up to record just the night time hours and I've already caught the following exchanges.

1. "My wife has gained so much weight. I wish I could show you guys a picture of how hot she use to be " (um...I just had a baby and I'm still very slender)

2. I heard him flirting with a stripper and they giggled about both being married.

3. He had a random conversation with a man at the bar who told my husband his story of being unfaithful and losing the love of his life...his wife. My husband said...well your real mistake was getting caught.

4. Much talk of sexually vulgar things with his buddies.

I feel like it's just not enough to leave him. Oh my goodness...how did I get here? I have no respect for myself and clearly he doesn't respect me either. Is this man flawed on a character deep level or do all men act like this when their partners aren't around? All the guys with him were speaking multiple times on sexual affair type things and they're all married too."

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=527424


Wow. No way I would try to stay married to someone like that. He is no good.

Re: Spying 201 [Re: SmilingWife] #412149
07/19/16 08:45 PM
07/19/16 08:45 PM
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Mark1952 Offline
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Bumping this so it can be amended.

Snooping, Spying and Looking for Truth

In an ideal world, where every marriage is totally open and honest and only what is best for our spouse and our relationship is the primary motivation for everything that we do, snooping becomes irrelevant. If your spouse knows everything you do and you know everything he or she does, even when you are apart, snooping is not only pointless, but can also damage the relationship. Under such conditions it undermines trust rather than creates it. Without a specific target or reason for snooping, the act itself does not give comfort or build trust because not finding anything incriminating doesnt prove that you have no cause for mistrust and when your snooping is discovered, which it eventually will be, the lack of trust will prove more about your own dissatisfaction with the relationship than anything your spouse might have done to make you look for evidence of broken trust.

There are some who become addicted to the activities involved in snooping. It can give you quite a rush of adrenaline to hack into her email or work around that new pattern lock on his phone. As you sneak into the bedroom while he watches the game to dig through his pockets and read every scrap of paper you can find in his wallet, it can give you quite a sense of power. As you eavesdrop on her phone conversation with the mother of another child on your childs soccer team, it can feel like you are gaining insight into some secret place. It makes you feel extraordinary and special. It makes you a super-hero with special powers.

Power, control and manipulation is what this sort of snooping is usually about. For some it leads to a false sense of security if nothing serious is found; while for others lack of evidence only makes them want to look harder and dig deeper. If you are snooping and find nothing you should be concerned about but keep looking, absent other evidence of a secret life, your lack of trust might be more about something that is an issue you need to deal with in yourself or your own emotional responses to the current state of your relationship.

Ive even know a few who searched for evidence of wrong doing by their spouse for the purpose of justifying their own betrayal of the marriage.

Privacy vs Secrecy

We all, as individuals, expect and demand a certain level of privacy. When that privacy is violated we respond unfavorably or even violently. We feel vulnerable, exposed, perhaps even betrayed. If that privacy is violated by someone we are close to, the betrayal can be especially damaging to the relationship.

But there is also the other side of privacy related to keeping secrets from others. Privacy is about having your own thoughts and your own fears. It has to do with not revealing the worst of ourselves. Its closing the door to use the bathroom or take a shower. Its having your own friends, your own job, your own dreams and your own sense of self.

All secrets are private but not all privacy is keeping secrets. Secrets are things kept private in order to deceive others. They are about balance of power or maintaining the status quo. Secrets are kept hidden so that others might not see the real self.

Secrets are often justified by claiming that they are hidden for the protection of self or others. In business, in national security, even in daily life, like when you take a vacation, not everything has to be posted on social media for the whole world to see but if you are keeping a secret because your spouse would be hurt if they knew you were doing what is being hidden, why would you be doing something that you know would hurt your spouse to begin with?

In marriage, there should always be privacy. Seldom does secrecy prove beneficial to the person from whom the information is being withheld. Generally, a secret kept only benefits the person or group keeping it. It might, in such instances, be to the benefit of the one being kept in the dark, and perhaps even to the relationship itself to discover things kept hidden in order to know how to respond. Under such circumstances, snooping may be the only viable way to know information that is crucial to your own life and well being.

This debate even plays out in our political discourse. We want the government to snoop on bad guys to keep us safe but dont want them listening to our phone calls because our personal calls are private. Sometimes they are also full of secrets though many are more likely to be a threat to our marriage than to national security.


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: Spying 201 [Re: Mark1952] #412181
07/20/16 03:50 PM
07/20/16 03:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
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SW Chicago 'burbs
Mark1952 Offline
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Is Snooping Legal?

The simple answer to this question is that there is no simple answer. What you do to snoop, what you do with the information you discover and a whole host of other factors can be applied to this question and some of those factors can vary a great deal depending on where you live. In the US, federal, state and in some cases even local laws apply. Judicial precedent can also have an impact.

A Michigan man was involved in a divorce and suspected his wife of infidelity. She had been married three times and her affair was with husband #2. He accessed her email account and printed them out and attempted to introduce them as evidence in court. He also shared them with husband #1 who was engaged in a custody struggle with the woman.

Sounds like sweet revenge, doesn't it? It didn't go so well, however, and the man was charged with what amounts to illegal hacking.

A lot of things can be done to gather information that are not illegal but even those methods of snooping might get you into trouble with the law depending on what you actually do with what you get by doing it.

Recording Phone Calls

As of this writing, there are 38 states and the District of Columbia that have what is called single party consent. That is, as long as one party is aware that the conversation is being recorded and has given consent, the recording is considered legal. This means that you can record conversations between you and your spouse, or between you and another person. What it also means is that you cannot record a conversation between other people unless at least one of them has given consent to being recorded and knows they are being recorded.

Twelve states currently have all party consent for recording. This means that in these states, everyone involved in the conversation must be aware that it is being recorded and give actual consent. These "two-party consent" laws have been adopted in California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.

The Illinois law is in question and a court ruled that it was unconstitutional in 2014. Hawaii is actually a one party state but requires all party consent if the recording device is installed in a private place. This might include even your own home or car, so before installing a recording device in Hawaii, seek legal counsel. The Massachusetts law prohibits "secret" recordings rather than requiring specific consent from each party. Hidden recording devices that some or all people present are not aware of will probably cause you more trouble than any information gained would give you an advantage.

In most cases, who initiates the call, who owns the phone or place the recording is being made and probably a hundred other factors might be involved. My recommendation is that if you live in a one party state and want to record conversations with your spouse, you ae probably free to do so. If you live in one of the all party states or Hawaii, secret recordings could be more trouble than they are worth.

In other countries, the laws can vary. In India, for example, no recording of a telephone call can be made without approval from the designated authority. Germany requires all party consent while Denmark only requires single party consent.

There are even a few laws on the books in the US and elsewhere that prohibit in person eavesdropping by attempting to overhear a conversation. In most cases in the US, if the conversation is loud enough to be heard "through a wall" or even through the HVAC system, it is permissible to listen to it. What you do with the information you gather might be a different story.

Recording Video

So far, video seems to be less regulated than audio recording. Devices such as nanny-cams that can be easily concealed, often left in plain sight, can usually be installed in your own home. There is a twist to the laws covering these devices however. You can usually record video in your own home, recreational vehicle and perhaps even your vehicle as long as you are not recording the audio. As soon as audio is part of the recording, the consent laws seem to take precedence. This is why most "nanny-cams" don't have microphones.

Where you install a video recording device can also get you into trouble, especially if it indiscriminately records everyone entering or leaving a space. Obviously, installing a camera in the bathroom could be hard to explain to a judge. As long as you keep the camera in the living room, kitchen or other public areas, you are probably safe. The bedroom might be a bit of a stretch in some states, but what you actually do with the recording probably matters more than where the camera is hidden.

Email, Messaging, Electronic Media

If your spouse has shared his or her password for their email account and has given you permission to access that email, legally, you are probably safe unless the password gets changed or access is denied directly. "Guessing" the email password is not the same as it being shared with you. That guy in Michigan "guessed" his wife's password and is in some pretty serious trouble.

For most purposes, other forms of electronic written communication are like email. If you already have legal access it remains until rescinded or the password gets changed. The laws regarding this type of access are starting to be applied to electronic storage as well. Whether hardware or cloud storage doesn't seem to be the criteria for legality.

If the email account or the device it is accessed with belong to a third party, I suggest you simply stay away from it. As tempting as snooping on his work computer or employer provided cellular phone might be, getting caught will land you in some serious hot water. If you get information that you can't act on without getting arrested, breaking the law to get it is probably not in your best interest.

It might be legal to access email through an email client or program installed on a family or shared computer, or one that belongs to you but gets used by your spouse on occasion,and for which you are the administrator and that allows access without entering a password to run the program. As courts start ruling on this sort of thing, the legality of such snooping could change quickly. Again I will stress that accessing the employer's email system or email service is likely to not end well. So just decide that the work email is off limits unless you like orange coveralls and shoes without laces.

=================
Break
+++++++++++++++++


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
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