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Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444564
01/07/20 02:54 AM
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Blair Offline
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Hugs, Cat. You can do this!

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444570
01/07/20 02:28 PM
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Thanks for the support, guys. I talked to DD's mother-in-law last night on Facebook, about her moving a block away from me. We commiserated about our husbands keeping junk, I told her the truth about my house, I asked her for advice since her husband is actually letting go of stuff before their move - her advice: move! lol

So I feel better, my shame is reduced. She's such a nice person, I hope we can become good friends. I sure need one.

Brings to mind that the only time DH would ever help clean the house is when we were going to have a party; so maybe if I invite them over, he'll get motivated to move all his crap upstairs.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444571
01/07/20 04:05 PM
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We just moved. We had a 30 x 36 shop full of crap all accumulated from the last 7 1/2 years. I was so so angry every time i went out there and then when we started moving I was REALLY angry. I found all sorts of crap that had left the house broken or worn out....and instead of being thrown away it was in the shop.

I kept thinking of Miranda, and you Cat and I am just not going to let it get to that point. So I am really rallying behind you to find a way out of this hoarding mess.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444572
01/07/20 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by catperson
Thanks for the support, guys. I talked to DD's mother-in-law last night on Facebook, about her moving a block away from me. We commiserated about our husbands keeping junk, I told her the truth about my house, I asked her for advice since her husband is actually letting go of stuff before their move - her advice: move! lol

So I feel better, my shame is reduced. She's such a nice person, I hope we can become good friends. I sure need one.

Brings to mind that the only time DH would ever help clean the house is when we were going to have a party; so maybe if I invite them over, he'll get motivated to move all his crap upstairs.



Amazing. Nothing like a bit of honesty and display of vulnerability to forge relationships and relieve anxiety 😊👍


Married 22years (this year) ~13y since dday(?)
DD17 DS14
Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444573
01/07/20 04:50 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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Further thoughts...I still can't have the baby over cos of all the junk; there's just no way to clean the house, you know? So that'll be a further discussion about emptying the bottom floor, so we can babysit.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Squeaky Tree] #444576
01/07/20 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Squeaky Tree
Amazing. Nothing like a bit of honesty and display of vulnerability to forge relationships and relieve anxiety 😊👍


I agree 150%!!! smile thumbsup


Orchid
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Squeaky Tree] #444578
01/07/20 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Squeaky Tree


Amazing. Nothing like a bit of honesty and display of vulnerability to forge relationships and relieve anxiety 😊👍

That was my thought - open up to her about it so I don't have that one more weight on my shoulders, waiting for them to ask to come over.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444580
01/07/20 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by catperson
Brings to mind that the only time DH would ever help clean the house is when we were going to have a party; so maybe if I invite them over, he'll get motivated to move all his crap upstairs.


Sounds like a tactic worth trying, with one BIG caveat:

Don't let him move it UP. That will only harbor everything even further from the door.. (and you digging yourself in even deeper.)
If he's gonna move stuff, it has to go OUT, not up.

Be firm.

Last edited by TC_Manhattan; 01/07/20 11:09 PM. Reason: typo
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: TC_Manhattan] #444582
01/08/20 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by TC_Manhattan
Sounds like a tactic worth trying, with one BIG caveat:

Don't let him move it UP. That will only harbor everything even further from the door.. (and you digging yourself in even deeper.)
If he's gonna move stuff, it has to go OUT, not up.

Be firm.


I agree. Good, simple and effective post from TC. thumbsup


Orchid
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444585
01/08/20 12:28 AM
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Good idea, TC!

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: TC_Manhattan] #444591
01/08/20 02:35 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TC_Manhattan
Originally Posted by catperson
Brings to mind that the only time DH would ever help clean the house is when we were going to have a party; so maybe if I invite them over, he'll get motivated to move all his crap upstairs.


Sounds like a tactic worth trying, with one BIG caveat:

Don't let him move it UP. That will only harbor everything even further from the door.. (and you digging yourself in even deeper.)
If he's gonna move stuff, it has to go OUT, not up.

Be firm.

The problem with that is there IS no other place for it to go. He runs a business out of our house, a business that involves huge boxes of wire and other equipment. The 3-car garage is filled 10 feet high with his crap and I've been trying for 18 years to get him to get rid of any of it with no success. At this point, I'm willing to 'give up' the second floor just to be able to live on the first floor in relative calm.

The only way I can see him going through everything and getting rid of stuff is if I move out and threaten divorce, and I'm just not ready for that.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444603
01/11/20 10:47 PM
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You could have him move all that stuff to a storage unit.

The moving and rental fees can and should be treated as necessary business expenses.

As long as you remain willing to “give things up,” and make concessions, your situation and sanity will continue to suffer.

One is never ready for change. That is what your resistance is all about, Cat.

One is never “ready” for a root canal, either. It takes doing. Period. Full stop.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444604
01/11/20 11:15 PM
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I know you're right, TC. I just have to figure out how to be willing to risk confrontation. Which is what has always been my stumbling block.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444605
01/12/20 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by catperson
I know you're right, TC. I just have to figure out how to be willing to risk confrontation. Which is what has always been my stumbling block.


TC right but I gather your H isn't into being reasonable. What you describe is similar to what I dealt with. I also suggested a storage a locker. He eventually got one and it encouraged him to go out and go to more storage auctions.

Eventually, I moved out but he was the last one to remove his things from our home. I moved the entire house and he moved his clothes, some furniture, computer, electronics and all his equipment and junk from under the house and garage.

So while the suggestions are reasonable, remember who you are dealing with. Mine tells me his 3 bdrm house with his upstairs landlord is full. He still has a storage locker. Seems he hasn't changed except that he can't blame us for his stuff cluttering everything and everywhere.

Take care,
Orchid


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Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444606
01/12/20 05:02 AM
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catperson Offline OP
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We came home late the other night from one of his construction projects (I've been helping him at night after I get off work) and my dog had peed all over the place, including a bunch of his boxes and tools covered in pee. As we're cleaning it all up - and mind you, this is the same day you guys and I had all been discussing my fears about the house and the in-laws seeing it and all - I VERY mildly said "We should clear out DD's room so we can take all this stuff upstairs"

That's all I got out before he screamed at me "WHEN THE [Bleep!] DO I HAVE TIME TO DO ANYTHING I'M WORKING NONSTOP I NEVER GET A BREAK I NEED TO GET THIS STUFF OUT OF THE HOUSE I'M NOT MOVING IT UPSTAIRS STOP TELLING ME WHAT TO DO!"

As usual, I'm in shock and my flight kicks in and I just back away from him and haven't spoken to him since.

But this is what happens whenever I dare question his actions or call into question what he's providing or doing for us. And until I have some sense of self worth - and that's a long way off - I can't even begin to contemplate telling him what I want. All therapy was doing was making me feel stupid for not standing up to him.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444607
01/12/20 06:27 AM
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Please don't let your fears hide the important message from him:

"WHEN THE [Bleep!] DO I HAVE TIME TO DO ANYTHING I'M WORKING NONSTOP I NEVER GET A BREAK I NEED TO GET THIS STUFF OUT OF THE HOUSE I'M NOT MOVING IT UPSTAIRS STOP TELLING ME WHAT TO DO!"

Respond to that by agreeing with him on this important acknowledgement. Now you know he knows this point and has to acknowledge it.

What can you do? To start: Find a way to confine your dog so he is not allowed to pee where he should not be peeing.

Look for other ways to reduce the work. Small steps.

Acknowledge him when he is correct. It may help him know you understand that point. Start there. Don't overuse that acknowledgement though, it can become irritating. When he says, why are you doing things, You can say you are working in accordance with his statement about getting stuff out of the house.

Show it by action and see if it encourages him. Don't do it all at once, little at a time. His guilt is alive and kicking.

jmo,
Orchid


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Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444608
01/12/20 03:48 PM
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This problem you describe Is why my therapist BEGAN my therapy by working with me modulating my own emotions. Getting control of my anxiety and fear response HAD to happen before anything else could change.

Once I did that, then I could begin to detach from my husband’s emotional outbursts. And then progress got very real.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444609
01/12/20 05:16 PM
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If it were my dog, I would have him pee on as much stuff and as often as possible.

Sounds like you are more of a staller than DH is, IMHO.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Miranda] #444610
01/12/20 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Miranda
This problem you describe Is why my therapist BEGAN my therapy by working with me modulating my own emotions. Getting control of my anxiety and fear response HAD to happen before anything else could change.

Once I did that, then I could begin to detach from my husband’s emotional outbursts. And then progress got very real.


That sounds like establishing boundaries and seeing the benefits of implementing them.


Orchid
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: TC_Manhattan] #444611
01/12/20 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TC_Manhattan
If it were my dog, I would have him pee on as much stuff and as often as possible..


Excellent idea! Although your dog did it because you were gone so long. But maybe H will move his junk so it can't be around for said peeing.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Orchid2] #444612
01/12/20 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Orchid2
Originally Posted by Miranda
This problem you describe Is why my therapist BEGAN my therapy by working with me modulating my own emotions. Getting control of my anxiety and fear response HAD to happen before anything else could change.

Once I did that, then I could begin to detach from my husband’s emotional outbursts. And then progress got very real.


That sounds like establishing boundaries and seeing the benefits of implementing them.



It was actually the foundation work that comes way before you can even establish boundaries. You’ve got to get ahold of yourself. Then detach from the other person. Step out of the enmeshment. Otherwise trying to set and hold boundaries just fails every time.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Miranda] #444613
01/13/20 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Miranda
It was actually the foundation work that comes way before you can even establish boundaries. You’ve got to get ahold of yourself. Then detach from the other person. Step out of the enmeshment. Otherwise trying to set and hold boundaries just fails every time.


Good point. Always believed the BS must work on themselves first to reduce the valid blame pointing fro the WS and OP or even from the BS themselves plus the need to be strong enough to move forward. You point to 'get ahold of yourself' sounds a similar approach. smile


Orchid
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444614
01/14/20 01:11 AM
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I find it fascinating that your response to him is flight.

I have a SIL ( dhs sister) who is having major marital problems. I heard Dh telling another of his sisters that ‘SW would never tolerate that. She would be all back in my face’.

I have to work reeeealy hard to keep my mouth closed at times.

I would love to understand what would prevent you Cat from saying, ‘ Don’t speak to me that way!!! I am not your boss but I am your WIFE! and I want this @@@@ house cleaned up, so whatever you need to do to make that happen is what we are going to do!! You Jackass!,’!,

I mean, what do you fear? Yourself? Your own rage? That if by speaking you might hit him with all you got.

Last edited by SmilingWife; 01/14/20 03:51 AM.
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: SmilingWife] #444618
01/14/20 03:50 AM
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Oops

Last edited by SmilingWife; 01/14/20 03:50 AM.
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #444633
01/16/20 01:01 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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What I fear is probably abandonment. And by that I mean repudiation of my worth. My self worth is nonexistent. I barely keep it together day by day. My toxic shame results in me feeling fear every day, all day, that someone will call me out on my not being worth being around them, holding my job, being a friend, etc. My mom gave me a self esteem book once; maybe I should find that and start working on it.

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