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Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: wiser_now] #140565
07/29/11 02:06 PM
07/29/11 02:06 PM
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
The chapters in section 2 are a bit easier a read, I've found. If u think that's too fast I can slow it down smile.

As to the WSSS lil... maybe it was from enmeshment... but maybe not. It sounds like it is something you COULD achieve again, but from a place of healthy interaction.


Looking forward to u joining is Herf!

And w_n, sorry you couldn't get the book. Feel free to comment if the mood strikes you:)

Last edited by Vibrissa; 07/29/11 02:07 PM.

Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Vibrissa] #140621
07/29/11 04:32 PM
07/29/11 04:32 PM
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The Farm
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w_n, I owe a "pay-it-forward" book to the cosmos. believer sent me HTIYLWTAI. If you are comfortable sending me your address, I could send you a copy of TPM.

Then it would be "tag, yer it" and you owe a pay-it-forward.

Sort of like the Cheese Touch. (Any readers of Diary of a Wimpy Kid here?)


42.
Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Vibrissa] #140622
07/29/11 04:32 PM
07/29/11 04:32 PM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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Should I go stick my finger in a light socket?

Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: herfuturesbright] #140644
07/29/11 05:32 PM
07/29/11 05:32 PM
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Aw, Jane! While I'm totally on board with paying it forward and the generosity with which your gift is offered, I am not comfortable sharing my address. I've done it before with varying results (from pleasant to horrifying) and it makes me feel a little sick inside that it's still out there with some folks.

I hope you understand and thank you again for the kind offer.


A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: wiser_now] #140656
07/29/11 05:50 PM
07/29/11 05:50 PM
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Yes, I totally understand. smile It was just an offer, not a demand.

I guess I've still got the Cheese touch then. *sigh*

Last edited by Jayne241; 07/29/11 05:52 PM.

42.
Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Jayne241] #140844
07/30/11 12:27 AM
07/30/11 12:27 AM
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I hope he discusses the WSS more in coming chapters. I'm up to Chapter 5 and so far, kind of understanding everything.

His take on a low desire spouse is certainly interesting. He gives a great explanation of why some spouses start out having lots of sex and end up not wanting it. And it has nothing to do with sex drive or past experiences.

He talks about Carol, who is low drive, but didn't start out that way. Turns out that she had low self esteem and anxiety. She had lots of sex at first to entice her husband. When she was married and more secure, she felt like she had to serve him.

Later on, she got resentful.

It's much different than most of the books about desire.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Lil] #140894
07/30/11 03:49 AM
07/30/11 03:49 AM
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I have experienced WSS many times. I think the loss of ego of the experience is more akin to a spiritual experience than to the dysfunction of co-dependency and enmeshment.

Schnarch ditches the term WSS in Intimacy & Desire. He devotes an entire chapter to the importance of f-cking. I mean no offence by using that term - it's the one he uses and he uses it very deliberately. He is not talking about generic sex or the many euphemisms for it.

Lil, it makes sense to me that WSS would disappear post-D. Trust is essential.

before a woman will be thoroughly indecent with you, she needs to determine that you are essentially decent. - [link]


we: me44 + my husband Pookie :9: + S9 + D6
Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: flowmom] #141135
07/31/11 05:57 AM
07/31/11 05:57 AM
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Ha! Got the internet working! I may not be able to post tomorrow, we'll see


Chapter 5 Sexual Desire: Who Wants to Want?

Chapter 5 begins with a discussion of how we view desire. How we have switched, as a society, from viewing low desire as a good thing, to seeing it as a bad thing, as evidence of some sort of dysfunction.

Originally Posted By: pg 127
Now, youre supposed to want it (unless youre excused for a medical or mental condition). Low sexual desire is almost always considered a problem. (Ive found it often reflects good judgment: healthy people dont want sex when its not worth wanting.)


He identifies several problems that arise from seeing sex as natural
Originally Posted By: pg 128
Viewing sexual desire as a natural hunger masks its complexity and encourages people to see themselves as defective.


Human sexual desire is typically thought to be composed of 3 characteristics: Basic programming to reproduce, relieving tension and fulfilling a craving for sexual gratification (we seek for pleasure). However, he identifies several other aspects of sexual desire that affect sexual potential and desire. He also explores the effects our different brains (reptilian, mammalian, neocortex) have on desire.
Marriage is a system, a collection of processes. Its complexity creates a context for the desire that we feel.

Originally Posted By: pg 139
Sexual desire wihin marriage isnt reducible to two sets of the various aspects of sexual desireor two sets of reptilian-mammalian-neocortex brain systems, or both partners unresolved individual differentiation issues. Theres more involved than each partners thoughts, feelings, past histories, anticipations, replays of parental dynamics, or unconscious processesThe point is that sexual desire in marriage involves all of these but is more than any of these parts.

Sexual desire in a marriage system is complex, inherently.

By its nature, the person with the lower drive will control sex always.

Because of the nature of marriage, we often fall into the strategy of not wanting to want.

Originally Posted By: pg 150
We cant delay wanting until we know our wants will be fulfilled. Marriage and life offer no such guarantees. Wanting, as an adult, takes strength Differentiation (your ability to calm your anxiety and soothe your own heart) makes wanting tolerable, though still not safe.
People who dont want to want are unable to tolerate the vulnerability involved in choosing their partner.


When spouses are Emotionally Fused their partner matters so much to them that it creates fear a fear of losing the acceptance of the partner, or of losing the partner altogether. To protect ourselves we dont want to want our partner. We often mistake this as indifference, when actually it is a reaction to the importance we place on our partner.
There are 4 options available at this point: withdraw emotionally, engulf your partner, be engulfed, or raise your level of differentiation.


Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
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Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Vibrissa] #141137
07/31/11 07:59 AM
07/31/11 07:59 AM
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Chapter 5 had reassuringly familiar concepts. He discussed the fact that the brain is our largest sexual organ. The brain is made up of the Reptilian brain lizard the mammalian brain (cortex) and the neocortex. The reptilian and cortex are not the parts of the brain that we are capable of utilising for differentiation.

Quote:
When your severely anxious, as though your life is at stake, you behave like a reptile. Reptiles and badly frightened people have two characteristic's: they have no sense of humour, and they eat because reptiles don't fight fair.their young. Relationships are not peaceful or stable. Although you're responsible for what you do at such times, the notion of 'choosing' is erroneous because the part of your brain that chooses (your neocortex) is no longer in control. Lessons in "fighting fair" are usually forgotten


He 'decodes' the infamous ILUBINILWU. The first love actually means caring, and wishing well for, while the second love translates to wanting. So it becomes "I care for you, I just don't want you anymore.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
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Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: flowmom] #141138
07/31/11 08:10 AM
07/31/11 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: flowmom
I have experienced WSS many times. I think the loss of ego of the experience is more akin to a spiritual experience than to the dysfunction of co-dependency and enmeshment.

Schnarch ditches the term WSS in Intimacy & Desire. He devotes an entire chapter to the importance of f-cking. I mean no offence by using that term - it's the one he uses and he uses it very deliberately. He is not talking about generic sex or the many euphemisms for it.

Lil, it makes sense to me that WSS would disappear post-D. Trust is essential.

before a woman will be thoroughly indecent with you, she needs to determine that you are essentially decent. - [link]


I didnt take offense smile

I had a look at the link and it was interesting. I read the quote out to DH and he agreed it was most likely true.

I have broken one of Schnarchs rules - I have been reading bits of the book to DH. I want him to know what I am doing, and where I am coming from and the reality is he will never willingly open a book, especially not a relationship book. While he agrees with what I tell him he makes it very obvious that he isnt interested. He said "MB told us we had a great marriage because we did their stuff and now your telling me we don't". He also makes jokes about what I am saying - uses humour to deflect what I am saying. I am all for fun and laughter but when I am trying to have a serious conversation about something important to me, I feel discouraged and reluctant to continue.

Yes I see the correlation with the couple in chapter 5. I just dont know how to change this dance.

The reason I am sharing this is because I think the trust stopping WSS concept, is true. I am finding it very hard to express anything about the loss of the WSS because it means I am bringing up the A. His lizard hates me bringing up the A. Frankly I think DH is perfectly happy with things as they are and doesnt understand why I feel there is a problem.

:frustration:


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Lil] #141162
07/31/11 03:49 PM
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lil, I wonder if one of the reasons he is uncomfortable talking about it is because he knows that his actions (even though you have forgiven them) are the catalyst for the problem. Granted, stbx and I had big problems in this area way before my A.....and then during hysterical bonding it was like I had the H I had always longed for. But in talking about it, he said that all that uninhibited, assertive, hang from the rafters passion was really a desperate attempt to get me back and be good enough.....so it actually for him was the worst time of his life. And I couldn't really argue with that - even though hearing it crushed me - because I knew I was the one who had caused that.

I think for a couple that has had amazing sexual life before an A....it really is possible to have swing from the chandeliers after (call me Pollyanna but I do). But I am sure it takes a long time and it can;t be forced. Our problem was that we never had it to begin with.

Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: herfuturesbright] #141191
07/31/11 08:09 PM
07/31/11 08:09 PM
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Heya Lil - couple of thoughts.

Quote:
I have broken one of Schnarchs rules - I have been reading bits of the book to DH. I want him to know what I am doing, and where I am coming from and the reality is he will never willingly open a book, especially not a relationship book.


Don't worry, I've broken this rule as well... grin

Quote:
MB told us we had a great marriage because we did their stuff and now your telling me we don't


I think that MB has laid a great foundation for our marriage, but I don't think greatness is ever actually achieved... not in the sense that we're done and good. There is always room for growth and improvement. I think that MB was a great starting place for me, but there is more than just MB - just meeting ENs and avoiding LBs. I think that is what Schnarch is delving into - the personal growth that marriage spurs within us.

It happens whether we like it or not - we're never really stagnant.

Quote:
The reason I am sharing this is because I think the trust stopping WSS concept, is true. I am finding it very hard to express anything about the loss of the WSS because it means I am bringing up the A. His hates me bringing up the A.


I'm gonna go out on a limb here - and this may be sacrilegious or just flat out wrong, I don't know... but trust works two ways. The other party 'earn's' our trust by being trustworthy, but we chose to give that trust. Sometimes we give that trust too easily and get burned.... so we refuse to give it again - perhaps not even consciously but we do - as a means of protecting ourselves.

So while your H can do all he can to regain your trust, it isn't going to help any if you aren't able to eventually open up and allow that trust to exist again, which can be scary because you can get hurt again.

This was in Chapter 5 of PM:
Quote:
Martial arts experts don't stay at 'red alert', ready for battle at any moment. They are perfectly relaxed because they know that they can take care of themselves. Their 'safety' doesn't come from trusting other people; it comes from knowing they can trust themselves. They've shown themselves they can respond effectively when the situation warrants...I'm not trying to lull you into dropping your defenses; I'm suggesting you defend yourself in a smarter way.


So the trust is different, not as open and not as free - but maybe it isn't your husband you should be trusting... It is yourself you should be trusting. Trusting that if something bad happens again, you will be able to see it and overcome it. Trusting in your ability to self-soothe regardless of what his actions in the future may be.

Quote:
Frankly I think DH is perfectly happy with things as they are and doesnt understand why I feel there is a problem.


I find the most interesting thing about this book is that you don't need your spouse to be on board to affect a change. By YOU becoming more differentiated, by YOU being more able to trust yourself, by YOU focusing on your own personal growth - change will come.

I could be way off base - but it's just what came to me.


Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Vibrissa] #141195
07/31/11 08:40 PM
07/31/11 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Vibrissa
Heya Lil - couple of thoughts.

Quote:
I have broken one of Schnarchs rules - I have been reading bits of the book to DH. I want him to know what I am doing, and where I am coming from and the reality is he will never willingly open a book, especially not a relationship book.


Don't worry, I've broken this rule as well... grin

Quote:
MB told us we had a great marriage because we did their stuff and now your telling me we don't


I think that MB has laid a great foundation for our marriage, but I don't think greatness is ever actually achieved... not in the sense that we're done and good. There is always room for growth and improvement. I think that MB was a great starting place for me, but there is more than just MB - just meeting ENs and avoiding LBs. I think that is what Schnarch is delving into - the personal growth that marriage spurs within us.

It happens whether we like it or not - we're never really stagnant.

Quote:


I find the most interesting thing about this book is that you don't need your spouse to be on board to affect a change. By YOU becoming more differentiated, by YOU being more able to trust yourself, by YOU focusing on your own personal growth - change will come.

I could be way off base - but it's just what came to me.


I agree 100%. It even works when you don't have a partner. I've been changing and trying to be more self-validating. I feel much more content.

Last edited by lildoggie; 08/01/11 07:52 AM. Reason: tidying up

"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Vibrissa] #141259
08/01/11 02:23 AM
08/01/11 02:23 AM
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Vibrissa, I like what you've written about trust. Especially for a woman who expresses herself through her feminine energy, being able to be vulnerable and open is central to her sexuality..


we: me44 + my husband Pookie :9: + S9 + D6
Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: flowmom] #141273
08/01/11 08:02 AM
08/01/11 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: herfy
I wonder if one of the reasons he is uncomfortable talking about it is because he knows that his actions (even though you have forgiven them) are the catalyst for the problem.
I understand that, and yet I find it annoying. I know he had an affair, I want to be able to refer to it without being concerned that he thinks I am holding it over him. It happened, it sucked, now I need to be able to honestly talk about it as if it happened to someone else so that I can find out where my block is. I dont need him to apologise, or even speak. If he really felt an urge he could say "I know, I did'nt know, you've said that." I am over the side stepping.

Originally Posted By: Vibs
I think that MB has laid a great foundation for our marriage, but I don't think greatness is ever actually achieved... not in the sense that we're done and good. There is always room for growth and improvement. I think that MB was a great starting place for me, but there is more than just MB - just meeting ENs and avoiding LBs. I think that is what Schnarch is delving into - the personal growth that marriage spurs within us.
I like that, I am going to use it smile

Originally Posted By: vibs
trust works two ways. The other party 'earn's' our trust by being trustworthy, but we chose to give that trust. Sometimes we give that trust too easily and get burned.... so we refuse to give it again - perhaps not even consciously but we do - as a means of protecting ourselves.

So while your H can do all he can to regain your trust, it isn't going to help any if you aren't able to eventually open up and allow that trust to exist again, which can be scary because you can get hurt again.
Quote:

So the trust is different, not as open and not as free - but maybe it isn't your husband you should be trusting... It is yourself you should be trusting. Trusting that if something bad happens again, you will be able to see it and overcome it. Trusting in your ability to self-soothe regardless of what his actions in the future may be.
I read this this morning so I have had all day to chew on it and yes, you are completely right. I dont trust me, and to an extent I don't trust DH. I am working on the self soothing, I am not sure how long that is going to take smile
Quote:
I find the most interesting thing about this book is that you don't need your spouse to be on board to affect a change. By YOU becoming more differentiated, by YOU being more able to trust yourself, by YOU focusing on your own personal growth - change will come.
I can feel some change within but not enough. I dont understand how the book can suggest it can be done by one when you have exercises like The Hug - but more on that in my report, next post.





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Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Lil] #141274
08/01/11 08:18 AM
08/01/11 08:18 AM
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Chapter 6 (Section 2)

Originally Posted By: Schnarch
'being relaxed' is really a baseline of tension you carry like body armour


Big wooh! on that statement. I could actually feel the tension as soon as I read it. Have been working on reliving it all day. Dr.S talks about how anxiety is contagious, and when in proximity to an anxious person we have the choice of taking on the same anxiety, separating ourselves from the person or differentiating and centring ourselves so we are aware but do not share it. An example is how when you pick up a fractious child and you are calm, they will calm down with little more than a hug, but if you are tense, no amount of cuddling will settle them.

The Hug

I dont entirely understand The Hug. At first it seemed like an exercise to be done to help spouses feel each other, but then the example couple where told to not do it. The H because he felt forced into it and pursued, the W because she had FOO issues making her willing to chase someone in order to be held.

I did try it out with DH yesterday. We got over 4 Mississippi without any jolting. Typically I am the Hugger and he is the Jolter. He commented that he was unsure of his part in it as he has little desire for hugging, he couldn't grope me, and hasnt suppose to lean on me and in fact was suppose to focus on himself making me superfluous to the moment laugh

I liked the hug - obviously I would, I like hugging. I did realise that I am hugging him to fill my own needs. Going back to MB, that would be a no-no because he is to fill my EN's, I am not to fill both of ours. I think my stepping away from helping him fill my needs might help me move towards differentiation. I am going to miss my hugs tho frown

On the positive side, after The Hug exercise we had SF and he really did make a huge effort to make more skin contact with me, more hug type holding during it, than the more usual emphasis on erogenous spots.

If we do The Hug again,or any hugging, I need to remember the very few steps Dr.S gives: stand on your own two feet, relax, listen to your inner voice and note it trying to discourage you, note where in your body you have tension.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Lil] #141315
08/01/11 01:33 PM
08/01/11 01:33 PM
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I stayed up way too late reading last night. You know what's funny? Beginning with the very first couple, I felt that tension between the "outside" voices saying "OH MY! For shame you hoochie mama!" and my own inner voice saying "How cool is THAT?!?" The tug of war between what a "normal" woman would think and what I was taught and my own desires and the fact that I really think when God wrote "the marriage bed is undefiled" He meant it.

Not sure how specific I will get here....but let's just say I have figured out I must be pretty uninhibited. I love being that way, but I do sometimes let that outside force make me question whether or not it is "proper." I look forward to shutting that outside voice up some.....and not just about sex.

Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: herfuturesbright] #141520
08/01/11 11:01 PM
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As you get farther along, HRF, you will see that is why a ONS or affair is easier than a long term marriage. Often in a marriage, a wife cares too much about her partner and feels that he will be judgmental if she lets herself go wild. It's also why sex is sometimes better when a couple goes away to a hotel for a weekend.

BTW - Where is this place? Every time I want to post here, I have to look Vibrissa up and look at her posts. Does that make sense?


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: believer] #141574
08/02/11 02:07 AM
08/02/11 02:07 AM
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Book reviews, under marriage resources


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Lil] #141639
08/02/11 08:35 AM
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Chapter 7.

Vibrissa was right, it does get easier to read in the second section. read

'Open your eyes'. As a rule we seem to think closing our eyes during kissing and SF is more romantic than eyes open.
Quote:
For many, love is blind - and we're grateful that it seems that way. We are afraid we wouldn't be loved if we were truly known. We tune out our partner (or ourselves) to tolerate getting close enough to touch
Only problem I have with eyes open is that since SF is normally at night, and since it's winter here there is no natural light, and neither of us want to get out of bed after, so we have the lights off. I tried keeping my eyes open, but all I could see was an outline LOL. If we have SF in the morning, I am normally still mostly asleep so keep my eyes closed out of tiredness. I am not sure how much 'seeing' one gets out of blurry morning eyes
laugh

Foreplay can be seen by both spouses as 'ticking a box', or 'just doing your job' leading to resentment by both spouses. I agreed with that. I sometimes feel if I had a jolly good snog first, you could skip the foreplay altogether. I get more turned on by deep passionate kissing than by feeling we're just doing the steps from initiation to climax.

Kissus interuptus. Technique whereby spouses kiss for a period, pull back and look at each other, then resume kissing. Requires similar focus as The Hug : relax, listen to your inner voice and note it trying to discourage you, note where in your body you have tension. Smiling and a friendly "Hi!" is allowed smile Allows you to see, and be seen.

Communal genitals. Alas one of my favourite sayings has to go: "Men, you do not own your penis's, they belong to your wife. You have peeing rights only".
Spouses may feel that if they are not going to have sex with anyone else then half their spouses genital 'belong' top them, therefore they MUST be made available to the other on demand. Genitals are not property, we own our own body.

Pg 202 in my book said "dont kid yourself that just reading this book will free you or your marriage from the shackles of fusion".

Well, darn
laugh

Tried The Hug again last night after explaining to DH that I wasnt going to ask for it. He kind of hunched down and folded himself over me. That was different.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Lil] #141913
08/03/11 12:57 AM
08/03/11 12:57 AM
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Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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herfuturesbright  Offline
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
I am getting deeper into the book now, and I can see that it is very timely for me. And not because of sex....but because there are some things I need to learn. Some things that I definitely need to learn.

Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: herfuturesbright] #142003
08/03/11 12:47 PM
08/03/11 12:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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herfuturesbright  Offline
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
Between this and the "sop chasing your partner away" thread, I think I am stumbling on some very important stuff.

Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: herfuturesbright] #142423
08/04/11 01:47 AM
08/04/11 01:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Lil Offline

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Lil  Offline

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Been trying to use differentiation when H says something I don;t like, so I can hear what he is saying without letting emotion cloud it. Apparently I am crap at it because he says I come over as stoned and indifferent laugh

I am up to chapter 9, but won;t post my thoughts to date, because I am interested in hearing what others are getting from it


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: herfuturesbright] #142424
08/04/11 01:47 AM
08/04/11 01:47 AM
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Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Lil Offline

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Lil  Offline

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Originally Posted By: heremainsfaithful
I am getting deeper into the book now, and I can see that it is very timely for me. And not because of sex....but because there are some things I need to learn. Some things that I definitely need to learn.


Going to share?? grin


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: BR: Book Club: Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships [Re: Lil] #142444
08/04/11 02:42 AM
08/04/11 02:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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herfuturesbright  Offline
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
The whole idea of self-soothing is very important. Because I cannot get into the habit (again) of needing reassurance to feel secure. It's needy. I also need to unlearn what years of tiptoeing taught me. If I am....ME, then the risk of opening up is reduced because the success of that opening up isn't determined by whether or not I get a positive response. The opening up itself is the "achievement."

That's a start.

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