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So You Want to End Your Affair.... #14019
10/26/10 07:46 PM
10/26/10 07:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,657
L
LadyGrey Offline OP
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LadyGrey  Offline OP
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L
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,657
This is a stab at a "how to" guide to end an A from the WS standpoint. Thought I would get it out there while all voices still appear reasonable.

I hope others will weigh in honestly on their experience in this process. It was my goal to not focus on the BS at all as it was my experience that that was simply not helpful. I think one of the reasons it is so hard for some people to end their A's is that the A is an escape from an unhappy marriage which is about to get way more unhappy, and choosing to do that lacks any intrinsic appeal. Bear in mind that my experience does not include a Plan A or 180 so I didn't have a spouse strategizing on how to get me to end it, or supporting me through the process. There was lots of white-knucking involved, and I still have white-knuckle moments.

I don't know how to make the bullet points work so this looks pretty.

How You End Your Affair

You have gotten yourself in a big mess. Whether you are the cheating "wayward" spouse or the affair partner, your affair needs to end and you know it, but you can't quite figure out how. Ending your affair feels overwhelming and impossible and a little tiny corner of your brain is saying "do I really have to?"

The answer to that is a resounding "Yes, you do." You are hurting many people by continuing your affair, one of whom is yourself. You are better than this. You deserve an honest, nurturing relationship, not this nightmare hell of lies and deceit and guilt and shame you have built for yourself.

To the outside world, ending your affair is an event. For you, it will be a process. Here are the steps:

Decide. Now is good. Decide emphatically.
o You will be re-deciding this on an hourly, sometimes minute-by-minute basis, for a period of time. Stay emphatic with yourself.
Identify your support system. Who is going to help you through this? Your spouse may or may not be on that list. Notify those people of your decision and ask them to give you support and hold you accountable.
Communicate that decision to your affair partner, clearly and unambiguously. "This relationship is over. Do not contact me again."
Institute no contact. It is impossible to overstate the importance of this. Your efforts to end your affair, however Herculean, are doomed to failure if you don't have a no contact policy in place.
o Deciding to enforce your no contact policy is the most important decision you will make every day.
o There are three types of contact:
Physical:
Work: Take whatever steps are available to minimize physical contact with him or her. Talk to HR and ask for a different work space as yours is too hot/cold/windy/sunny/noisy.
Home: if your affair partner lives near you, figure out a way to get in and out of your house or apartment without running into him or her.
School: drop the class or ask for a transfer to a different section,
Recreation: give up the activity for now.
Electronic:
Email. Block your affair partner's emails addresses.
Cell phone: assign your affair partner's numbers to a name like "Do Not Answer" or "I'm Worth More". If your cell phone carrier allows for it, block texts from your affair partner's number.
Facebook:
o I don't Facebook so I don't know how this might work.
Mental/Emotional
Get rid of anything that reminds you of your affair partner. Pictures, emails, gifts all of it has to go. Anything that might trigger fond memories must be discarded permanently.
Assign a mental image to your affair partner that you find repulsive, like a one three inch [Bleep!]. Don't worry about whether that image is fair or not it's just a tool.
o Take care of yourself emotionally and physically as best you can. Be alert to signs of depression and seek medical help or counseling.
o Do not decide to divorce at this point. You are not in your right mind a condition we refer to here as "foggy'. Don't decide anything you don't actually have to decide.
o Enforce your no contact policy as if your affair partner is Hitler at your border.


OK, it's over. Don't you feel better? You have done the right thing for you to start healing yourself and your marriage.

There is a lot of stuff you are going to have to address should I confess? Should I confess what my spouse doesn't know? How and how much information should I give? If my spouse wants to communicate with my affair partner, how will I handle that? Will my marriage survive this? Should my marriage survive this?

Do not get bogged down in any of that until you are completely certain that your affair is over as the enormity of it might weaken your resolve.

Rest assured there is plenty of information on this site and people who have walked your path and can help you decide what is best for you and your marriage.

Now get yourself a username, log in, start a thread under SOS, and let us help. This is the best support system you will find -- it's tragic that we know what we know, but the knowledge gained at such a high price is given meaning by helping others.







Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: LadyGrey] #14033
10/26/10 08:19 PM
10/26/10 08:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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herfuturesbright  Offline
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
I like the step-by-step-ness of this. One step at a time. Ending the A is key. Extracting the OM from all of your life. Nothing else really matters if this doesn't happen.

Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: herfuturesbright] #14134
10/27/10 04:09 AM
10/27/10 04:09 AM
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Looking4 Offline
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Hi, seekingbalance.

I began work on something similar awhile ago on a thread called For WSs Looking to Earn The "F". I gathered a lot of input from folks and have been dragging my feet in putting it together as life has gotten in the way. But you've inspired me to get back to it.

I like this because it takes into account the "pre" reveal, for lack of a better term. And this is crucial, for the reason hrf gives.

If you're okay with it, I'd like to see what kind of feedback you get here, we bring it together with what's on the other thread (and again, I know I need to finish pulling that together) then present as a cohesive piece for a final "review" of the braintrust among the forums.

Like much of the information on MA, this is very important and I'm glad to see others, like yourself, who feel the same about helping WSs turn around. Hopefully, WSs who are seeking guidance will read what you've written here and will respond in a way that helps their BS, their M, and them self begin the process to recovery.


Married 19 years
Two children - DS12 & DD10
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: Looking4] #14143
10/27/10 04:47 AM
10/27/10 04:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,381
Texas
Larry Offline
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Larry  Offline
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Raveness may show up, I hope so. I have heard she has some good stuff on the subject. I posted a note in an effort to motivate her - and SB was tapping her foot wink

We have started getting into specific guidelines on the peer counseling thread. So whatever you guys develop, keep a eye out for that aspect, please.

If you want the two threads merged, that can be arranged, no problem.

It does seem to me that WS recovery has more than a few complexities.

1. Why the affair? Lots of books on the subject.
2. Why stop the affair? Lots of books on the subject, most devoted to marriage recovery.
3. Continuing the affair - only one place I know has much support for that - gloryb, google it.
4. Stopping the affair for reasons that have nothing to do with the marriage. SB contribution.
6. What if the affair partner stops the affair?
7. Continuing the affair, divorcing, then marrying the affair partner - lots of that going on, with the majority failing. That said, one of my personal heroes, Robert Heinlein apparently did exactly that and had a long and very successful marriage to Virginia Heinlein.

For every BS, there is a WS, by definition. While there has been enormous resources devoted to BS recovery and far less for WS recovery, except for those who adhere to the beat them into submission advice guidelines.

After six years of reading everything I can get my hands on, I have some pretty strong opinions on why most folks cheat. While individual decisions are very much the deal, there are broad categories that claim most of the reasons. It all boils down to dumb and dumber get married and haven't a clue.

I hate adultery. I hate affairs, cheating, catting around or whatever you want to call it, because of the drama and the trauma and even more, because it screws up kids. I feel for the adults, but not as much as I do for the kids.

On the other hand, affairs can be a great wake up call and lead to a happier life if people will take advantage of the trauma and learn what they should have learned before they got married.

Larry


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: Larry] #14196
10/27/10 02:24 PM
10/27/10 02:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
SB, I am glad you have started this thread. And you seem to be a person of focus, which is a good thing. One thing that doesn't need to happen is for this to become one of "those" threads where it devolves into "once a wayward always a wayward" or "I can't rant at my spouse so I'll use you." WS's DO make their own beds, in a sense. But there is a way to get out of that bed and leave it behind forever. I believe that with everything in me because I do have faith that people are not defined by one period in their lives and because I did it.

Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: herfuturesbright] #14201
10/27/10 02:37 PM
10/27/10 02:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
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southern USA
at peace Offline
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at peace  Offline
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Originally Posted by heremainsfaithful
I believe that with everything in me because I do have faith that people are not defined by one period in their lives and because I did it.


I love this. smile


"To know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice."
wife...mom...nana...happy smile
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: at peace] #14246
10/27/10 05:45 PM
10/27/10 05:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,407
Not quite here
Squeaky Tree Offline
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I think this is a great thread and I really like the emphasis on the WS and I really do believe that this is the best way for WS/AP coming here, wanting to end the A. I found it very hard to act on advice that wanted me to think of my BS and in the early days could only focus on me, cos it took all of me just to get through withdrawl- selfish wayward stuff, but my reality.

SB if you want to go back and edit your list to deal with cutting contact on FB the very best way is to remove yourself from FB...
it is possible to block the other person through privacy settings...but this isn't failsafe... my om showed up in pics another friend put on... put me into a state of shock, so I then removed all mutual friends and for a while only had MB friends and friends in other countries on my FB to avoid such accidents again.

I really think the accountability should be highlighted....I told many many people about my A(ran them past my H first and he removed some from the list) to help keep me on the straight and narrow. H was on my list for accountability.

I think yours and L4s thread will marry together beautifully and compliment each other through the process.


Married 22years (this year) ~13y since dday(?)
DD17 DS14
Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: Squeaky Tree] #14298
10/27/10 08:29 PM
10/27/10 08:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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herfuturesbright  Offline
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
Accountability, NC, and EP's really helped me because it was something tangible. DH couldn't see or hear or prove my feelings. But he could check the keylogger and see that nothing was there. He could call and have me answer and know I was accessible. As I did what I said I would do and didn't do what I said I wouldn't, those were ways I felt in control of changing my own life. And when that darkness of "I am and forever will be dirty and shameful and unredeemable" came in, I could say: "I did something terrible and inexcusable. HERE is what I am doing to change." Because once the pain and secondary gain of us feeling awful wears off (and hopefully it will), what a BS really needs a a spouse who is different from the wayward one. And WE need to be different because being different will help us too.

Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: herfuturesbright] #14337
10/27/10 09:51 PM
10/27/10 09:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
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L
LadyGrey Offline OP
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LadyGrey  Offline OP
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Posts: 4,657
As far as merging the threads, that's fine with me.

I was kind of hoping that people would add to/edit what I wrote to see if we could come to a consensus on the right steps as well as a consensus on what the points of disagreement are so that different ways of approaching the issue don't deteriorate into a posting match.

For example, some BS's may be of the strong view that their WS should not get rid of emails as they would want to see them which is something I considered in my list. On balance, I decided that the BS is better off not seeing the emails if hanging onto them might prolong the affair. That's my view though, and others may have equally valid points of view. What I don't want to see is someone showing up here saying, "OK, I deleted all the emails" and then get swarmed by BS's saying, "More proof that you are a liar, etc." If there are different points of view on these steps that people feel strongly about, I want those points of view incorporated.

I feel very strongly that NC is essential but every time I tried to expand on that section, it sounded preachy or got too dense. If someone has some thoughts on how to express the reasons for NC cleanly, chime in.

HRF, could you add something about EP's? It's a concept I never really got.

I also would like to see other's thoughts on managing withdrawal tricks that worked. I read Mark's Managing Memories and it is very helpful but it's a little dense for someone in a crisis.

I didn't include accountability as that relates to the BS who may or may not know.

Ending an A can feel impossible so I was trying to keep it simple. I think meeting a WS at the door with the following is not helpful, and, in fact, counterproductive:

1. You are going to have to quit your job if you work with your AP.
2. You are going to have to sell your house and move if you live next door to your AP.
3. You are going to have to confess.
4. You are going to have to tell all the gory details if that's what your BS wants.
5. You are going to have to accept your BS's rage and pain in whatever form it is dished out for as long as it takes him to heal.
6. It takes at least two years to recover a marriage if you do every single thing we say.
7. You are going to have to expose your A.
8. You must immediately cut all ties with any friends and/or family members who knew about your A.
9. You are going to have to apologize to every person impacted by your A.
10. Your BS may divorce you and take your children.
11. You are a criminal.
12. You have committed the gravest sin there is in an M.
13. You are selfish, entitled, and cruel.
14. Clearly you don't care about your children, who your BS may take away once you confess, because you had an A.
15. You must ooze humility and remorse.
16. Please keep posting. We are here to help.

Uh I think I'll just give my AP a buzz instead.

However true all that stuff might be, unless the A is well and truly dead, it is just too much too soon. I wonder how many people have read all that and thought "I don't think so…."

Ending the A may be a false summit, but false summits keep us climbing.

Interestingly, another board beats the remorse drum loudly, but the site owner featured a study of 600 WW's, none of which were remorseful. So either that is a statistically flawed sample, or the FWW's who post about the absolute necessity of remorse are statistical anomalies.

ETA:
17. Send your BH here. (My personal favorite as I got a chuckle out of it -- yea, right, sure. I'll get right on that.)

Last edited by seekingbalance; 10/27/10 09:58 PM.

Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: LadyGrey] #14501
10/28/10 07:45 AM
10/28/10 07:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,407
Not quite here
Squeaky Tree Offline
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From a FWW point of view I would really like to keep L4s and SBs threads separate... as in really, really. They are different and it would be good to keep the diversity...they compliment each other and to merge them would lose the feel of them.

Maybe they can be intelligently merged, but I like the different emphases.


Married 22years (this year) ~13y since dday(?)
DD17 DS14
Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: Squeaky Tree] #14502
10/28/10 07:50 AM
10/28/10 07:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,407
Not quite here
Squeaky Tree Offline
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Squeaky Tree  Offline
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Posts: 5,407
Not quite here
Withdrawl helps:
Picture a stop sign when thoughts of OP jump in...I found this much quicker and halting of my thought process than the yukky image.
I'm afraid I used to pine on line, I used to moan on MB about missing OM - but I got it out of my system and I wanted to save my M and although I didn't want to upset BSs - my priority was me.


Married 22years (this year) ~13y since dday(?)
DD17 DS14
Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: Squeaky Tree] #14595
10/28/10 04:13 PM
10/28/10 04:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
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Texas
Larry Offline
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SB

Quote
How You End Your Affair

You have gotten yourself in a big mess. Whether you are the cheating "wayward" spouse or the affair partner, your affair needs to end and you know it, but you can't quite figure out how. Ending your affair feels overwhelming and impossible and a little tiny corner of your brain is saying "do I really have to?"

The answer to that is a resounding "Yes, you do." You are hurting many people by continuing your affair, one of whom is yourself. You are better than this. You deserve an honest, nurturing relationship, not this nightmare hell of lies and deceit and guilt and shame you have built for yourself.


You have asked that your post get "The Treatment," meaning that you wanted readers to add/edit:

Right at the top, I have some questions. First background.

I have asked several FWS why they terminated the affair prior to getting caught. I got some answers. Then I asked those who terminated the affair AFTER they got caught; either themselves or their affair partner and I got different answers.

On the other hand, when I asked why they got into an affair to begin with, the answers were more uniform between the two groups.

One common theme with both groups was that they felt they were in a trap. They wanted OUT, sorta, maybe, but were ill equipped to take the step(s) needed.

And of course, cognitive dissonance reigned supreme as to why they engaged in the affair.

The word "Process" gets near universal hammering by the BS group. That probably does an injustice to the concepts needed by a WS leaving an affair.

I think the first step is to define why an affair is bad. Is it, really? What common factors make it bad, if indeed it is bad? Can an affair ever be called " A good thing?" And when might that be?

Lots of questions.


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: Larry] #14621
10/28/10 05:40 PM
10/28/10 05:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
Quote
1. You are going to have to quit your job if you work with your AP.
2. You are going to have to sell your house and move if you live next door to your AP.
3. You are going to have to confess.
4. You are going to have to tell all the gory details if that's what your BS wants.
5. You are going to have to accept your BS's rage and pain in whatever form it is dished out for as long as it takes him to heal.
6. It takes at least two years to recover a marriage if you do every single thing we say.
7. You are going to have to expose your A.
8. You must immediately cut all ties with any friends and/or family members who knew about your A.
9. You are going to have to apologize to every person impacted by your A.
10. Your BS may divorce you and take your children.
11. You are a criminal.
12. You have committed the gravest sin there is in an M.
13. You are selfish, entitled, and cruel.
14. Clearly you don't care about your children, who your BS may take away once you confess, because you had an A.
15. You must ooze humility and remorse.
16. Please keep posting. We are here to help.


I will agree that reading all this and knowing that it often comes rapid fire within a two-hour period to a WS makes my head spin. Nobody can process that much info that quickly, must less do at all perfectly right now or else. I wanted to make some comments.

For #1 - NC is the ideal we should all strive for. I didn't have to worry because OM had already quite and wasn't coming back. However, I was also the breadwinner and insurance carrier, and my DH is diabetic. So me just waltzing into the principal's office with a resignation letter......that would have been a tough call. I would say that a WS needs to start looking for another job ASAP, let the job site know what was going on, and set up extra extra measures.

#2 - Same thing. Houses are on the market months and even years now. Plus there is the kids' school. Again, I think that rather than knee-jerk a sign into the yard, it needs to be discussed

#3 - I don't have much to say about that. The parties involved deserve to know.

#4 - Again, if the BS wants to know, I lean toward yes. However, I think there are ways to do that other than a sobbing all-nighter play by play. MY DH asked me specific things and I wrote them out

#5 - they are going to and are entitled to feel pain. They are not allowed to be abusive. Period. One assault or cursing screaming raging dishes throwing episode is one too many. Period.

#6 - I think this is misleading. Recovery is a process. Because I was doing the work and DH was willing to accept the work, I could see progress for us fairly quickly.....progress. It depends on both the WS and the BS. A year after D-Day our M was better than it had ever been. Some people are still limping and angry and defensive and cynical ten years later.

#7 - Again, exposure should depend on the situation. It was good for us to expose to our families, kids, and close friends, etc. It was not necessary for DH's interim department head to know. It turned out to be damaging for my principal to know

#8 - If I had done that then we would be out some significant people, unless you mean people who encouraged the A. Those do need to go.

#9 - I apologized to my family, our kids, and of course, DH. I also backed off of church duties while we went through stuff. I didn't call my buddy from the majorette line in HS school apologize

10-14 usually come from a place of deep pain. I get the pain, but the idea that I never see my kids again or that I am forever and inherently evil are ridiculous.

#15 - This one is tougher for me. Honestly, I believe that a WS who is still caught up in what great reasons they had to cheat and how society at large is unfair to them, etc. isn't recovering. I watch those crime documentaries sometimes, and the murderers will say, 'I'm sorry it happened," or "I wish it hadn't happened." What I long for them to say is. "I killed someone. It was wrong and inexcusable. I. Was. Wrong." I think if a WS cannot or will not say that, they are stuck. And since I am supposed to love my DH, how could I NOT feel some sort of remorse over hurting him? Of course, some people have mistaken remorse for a perpetual scarlet-lettered mea cupla. And that doesn't help anyone.

Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: herfuturesbright] #369678
12/05/14 12:28 AM
12/05/14 12:28 AM
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The Dark Side of the Moon
AntigoneRisen Offline
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The Dark Side of the Moon
Bump so I don't lose it again.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: AntigoneRisen] #369690
12/05/14 03:33 AM
12/05/14 03:33 AM
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L
LadyGrey Offline OP
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LadyGrey  Offline OP
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I suppose another way of looking at it is that the unfaithful spouse needs to be focused on why it happened, which is a subject they are not invited to discuss, and the faithful spouse is more focused on their mate being sorry that it happened, the remorse being made manifest through a series of hoops to be jumped through, sincerity be damned.

I think the "why" is a multi-layered evaluation of the more obvious boundary failures -- for example, in my case, in a bar with a girlfriend drinking wine -- because you really never know with whom you are going to click so don't put yourself in a situation where there is anyone with whom you might do so. The more obvious EP's address those external stimulus.

Easy enough really. I didn't and don't struggle too much with that bit. What I struggle with are my internal EP's. LovingAnyway had a post on this that really resonated with me. My internal EP requires that I monitor my depression as a protection to my marriage. My internal EP requires that I exercise daily and take my meds and get enough sleep (the Holy Grail!) to manage my depression. My internal EP requires that I monitor my often overfilled Resentment Bank lest we have another toxic waste spill.

My problem with L4's list is that it isn't nearly that hard, and it isn't nearly that easy. You have to think, not just do. And you have to do, not just think. And you have to communicate all of that in some way that is something short of paralytically terrifying (marie, I know you are reading and you get this).

I did a whole bunch of stuff I never told my husband I was doing because I was -- and if we are being honest, still am -- scared to death of the man. To tell him I was doing all that stuff to make him feel safe was.....unsafe.

Once it became a matter of regaining my integrity, his involvement in the process became irrelevant and all resentment surrounding the changes I had made faded to grey. Obviously.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: LadyGrey] #369705
12/05/14 01:56 PM
12/05/14 01:56 PM
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midwest
Miranda Offline
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Those internal EPs are really critical and never get talked about LG. Thanks for being willing to explore those here for a minute.

I'm not sure how I stayed the course in this relationship given the depths of my depression, and my total lack of self care, and the black hole of my resentment. It is really a miracle born out lack of opportunity meets sheer luck meets crazed force of will that I wasn't going to be "that woman" again this time. But we were inching ever closer to a place where even those things might not have been enough.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: Miranda] #369728
12/05/14 04:17 PM
12/05/14 04:17 PM
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ohmy_marie Offline
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ohmy_marie  Offline
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what are EPs? extraordinary precautions?


may came home with a smooth round stone
as small as a world and as large as alone. -- e. e. cummings
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: ohmy_marie] #369835
12/06/14 09:39 PM
12/06/14 09:39 PM
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Posts: 7,569
New Zealand
Lil Offline

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Lil  Offline

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Yep


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
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Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: Lil] #369840
12/06/14 10:45 PM
12/06/14 10:45 PM
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LadyGrey Offline OP
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Although I don't think there is anything "extraordinary" about them....

For the most part, EP's are just good common sense that no on ever bothered to pass on.

The exception might be the notion of self care which in my FOO was characterized as selfishness. I found the idea that I had a right and an obligation to take care of myself startling. The way I understood the system, I was supposed to take care of everyone else -- starting and ending with my mother's feelings and well being -- and they were supposed to take care of me except that second part kept not happening which gave rise to a fair amount of resentment which was then squelched under the theory that those expectations were selfish which then gives rise to more resentment, and so on until you find yourself in bed with a relative stranger, sneaking vodka into your orange juice, exploding for no good reason, plotting murder, working 18 hours a day, shopping 18 hours a day, writing in excess of 75K posts on a forum, sleeping 14 hours a day, becoming a hermit with 22 cats, the subject of an episode of Hoarders -- pick your poison 'cuz you are going to be poisoned by something!

I suspect anyone who does any of those things isn't heavily into self care.

Last edited by LadyGrey; 12/06/14 10:47 PM.

Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: LadyGrey] #369849
12/07/14 02:42 AM
12/07/14 02:42 AM
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Posts: 13,424
midwest
Miranda Offline
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Miranda  Offline
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Yup. Right on the head. So deadly accurate it made me laugh hysterically. Until I realized it was true. Then I got really sad.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: LadyGrey] #370396
12/13/14 12:50 AM
12/13/14 12:50 AM
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Posts: 12,611
The Dark Side of the Moon
AntigoneRisen Offline
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The Dark Side of the Moon
Quote:
The exception might be the notion of self care which in my FOO was characterized as selfishness. I found the idea that I had a right and an obligation to take care of myself startling. The way I understood the system, I was supposed to take care of everyone else -- starting and ending with my mother's feelings and well being -- and they were supposed to take care of me except that second part kept not happening which gave rise to a fair amount of resentment which was then squelched under the theory that those expectations were selfish which then gives rise to more resentment, and so on...


My god, LG. I think we're related! shocked


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: AntigoneRisen] #374662
01/27/15 04:15 AM
01/27/15 04:15 AM
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The Dark Side of the Moon
AntigoneRisen Offline
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The Dark Side of the Moon
This guide has been published as an article.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: So You Want to End Your Affair.... [Re: AntigoneRisen] #374757
01/27/15 08:16 PM
01/27/15 08:16 PM
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Posts: 7,470
right here waiting Offline
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right here waiting  Offline
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And a darned good one. Thank you, LG.


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