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Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: LivingWell] #156414
09/12/11 04:35 PM
09/12/11 04:35 PM
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MyRevelation Offline
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Originally Posted By: LivingWell
LG, please don't engage with *them* on their level or for their purposes.


Assuming I'm one of the "them" ... where is my level and what do you think are my purposes?

Quote:
I would Notify to see if you could get special rules and special Moderator accomodation like someone else got.


What makes you think LG doesn't ALREADY have "special rules and special Moderator accomodation"?

Do you know of another "wayward" poster who gets to bash their BH without question?

What would those "special rules and special Moderator accomodations" look like?

How would those "special rules" benefit "Marriage Advocacy"?

LW, I know how much you like to explore with questions ... it would seem reasonable that is how you prefer to interact ... if so, possibly this approach will help us understand your "level" and "purpose".

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: MyRevelation] #156417
09/12/11 04:42 PM
09/12/11 04:42 PM
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rob x Offline
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let's play nice everyone,
I only just posted to this thread recently after being away for a bit, I've read the last several posts, I personally don't see any issues to be alarmed about, I don't think LG is attacking anyone or being attacked, for what it's worth, LW I think your post may have started something that didn't need to be started - I think it's possible for adults to engage in this discussion openly and freely.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: rob x] #156433
09/12/11 05:03 PM
09/12/11 05:03 PM
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LivingWell Offline
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Originally Posted By: rob x
...LW I think your post may have started something that didn't need to be started - I think it's possible for adults to engage in this discussion openly and freely.

Thank you for being direct, rob x.

I appreciate knowing that from your point of view that my post may have "started" something.....because it tells me how much others might see, or not......and how it appears when someone no longer shuts up about it.

Not sure if that awareness will result in any changes but it might, who knows.

While I'm replying to you, rob x, I want to mention that I have only read a few of your posts......what I have read, I liked a lot and from those few posts can see why you have such a good reputation. I don't read more of your posts because they're hard on my eyes without paragraph spacing.....and I'm wondering if there are others who don't read them for the same reason. Just in case you want to increase your readership at MA. grin

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: MyRevelation] #156437
09/12/11 05:08 PM
09/12/11 05:08 PM
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LivingWell Offline
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Originally Posted By: MyRevelation
LW, I know how much you like to explore with questions ... it would seem reasonable that is how you prefer to interact ... if so, possibly this approach will help us understand your "level" and "purpose".

MyRevelation......I strongly suspect that questions I pose are for a distinctly different purpose than the one for which you pose questions.

If an Admin or BoD were to pose those questions, I would answer them.

I hope this explains why I won't be responding on this thread.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: LivingWell] #156439
09/12/11 05:22 PM
09/12/11 05:22 PM
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star*fish Offline
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This topic is locked temporarily pending review.


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: star*fish] #156868
09/13/11 04:08 PM
09/13/11 04:08 PM
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Larry Offline
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Texas

This topic is unlocked but remains under review at the Board of Directors level and including Moderators and Admins.

Larry


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: MyRevelation] #156887
09/13/11 04:30 PM
09/13/11 04:30 PM
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catperson Offline
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Originally Posted By: MyRevelation
What makes you think LG doesn't ALREADY have "special rules and special Moderator accomodation"?

Do you know of another "wayward" poster who gets to bash their BH without question?
Just to clear, that would be "former wayward."

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: catperson] #156895
09/13/11 04:34 PM
09/13/11 04:34 PM
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MyRevelation Offline
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Originally Posted By: catperson
Originally Posted By: MyRevelation
What makes you think LG doesn't ALREADY have "special rules and special Moderator accomodation"?

Do you know of another "wayward" poster who gets to bash their BH without question?
Just to clear, that would be "former wayward."


Others Mileage May Vary

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: catperson] #156901
09/13/11 04:42 PM
09/13/11 04:42 PM
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Not quite here
Squeaky Tree Offline
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Not quite here
Shall we clarify what is FW and what is just wayward?

My definition of FW would be taking total responsibility for the choice to have an A?

Anyone else's definition?

Wayward to me would be continuation of blaming the BS......this does not mean a WS/FWS is unable to complain or seek help to cope with behaviour of their BS that they are not happy with.


Married 22years (this year) ~13y since dday(?)
DD17 DS14
Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Squeaky Tree] #156908
09/13/11 04:48 PM
09/13/11 04:48 PM
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catperson Offline
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IDK, it seems pretty plain that former means no longer doing it.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: catperson] #156926
09/13/11 05:10 PM
09/13/11 05:10 PM
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Chrysalis Offline
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Originally Posted By: catperson
IDK, it seems pretty plain that former means no longer doing it.


Lots of people quit their affairs but do not take steps to fix their side of the marriage street. That to me is not "former" wayward. It is another affair waiting to happen.

As for the question that started this thread, the experience in my marriage was that he didn't "snap" out of it-- it was a long, grueling, process for both of us. I look at him today and he is a different man. I have no desire to see that other guy return!

"Former" waywards have given up the sense of entitlement that allowed them to make the affair choice in the first place, and replaced it with humility and grace.

IMHO.

And one more thing. I don't think we have the right to award or deny the "F" letter to our forum friends. That is to be negotiated and worked out between spouses, and it is hard work. What we can legitimately do is confront a specific instance of unclear thinking or misplaced attitude, with kindness and truth.

Kindness without truth is not kindness at all. Truth without kindness is going to fall on deaf ears, or drive the struggler farther into their woes.


Chrysalis
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #156938
09/13/11 05:38 PM
09/13/11 05:38 PM
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flowmom Offline
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This discussion just reinforces to me that I am not a fan of labelling people as wayward, former wayward, etc. The WS/WAS/LBS/BS can be a useful shorthand for communicating in the forum, but I find the whole "scarlet letter" vibe when referring to people who have had affair(s) in the past rather distasteful. We have all made bad choices in the past, in different areas of life. We are more than our past choices and we should all be focusing on the micro-decisions we make every day - decisions to be honest, to communicate, to connect, to improve ourselves, etc.


we: me44 + my husband Pookie :9: + S9 + D6
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: catperson] #156940
09/13/11 05:39 PM
09/13/11 05:39 PM
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Looking4 Offline
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I hope you can forgive the t/j here, AtTheEnd. I will respond to your initial question and reasons for this thread, but I also want to respond to statements that were made before.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
If you hear what we are told to say -- "the reason I had an affair is that I have poor boundaries around men/women," you may feel better, but you aren't getting good data as I SERIOUSLY doubt there are many unfaithful spouses who really believe that.

I understand this is your opinion, LdG. You were clear to not state it as fact. I haven't polled any unfaithful spouses (current) so maybe few unfaithful spouses would say that. However, if you're talking about formerly unfaithful spouses (past), I am one of them and I do believe that is why I decided to cheat.

I wasn't told to say anything. And even if I was, I don't have to say it. No one can make me or anyone else do or say anything. I had an affair in very large part due to my poor boundaries. And I really believe that.

When I was in my A I believed I deserved whatever made me happy and because I blamed my H for my unhappiness, I also mostly blamed him for me having an A. While I was cheating, I didn't take into account that I was also responsible for my unhappiness and that I was the one at fault for the A not my H. I mean, he wasn't the one having late night phone conversations with the OM and he wasn't the one who lied to meet OM in the parking lot. I was.

I chose to have an affair because I thought it better to feel good in my fantasy land with the fantasy man. That was far more exciting for me then confronting the failure of my M. I chose to lower my boundaries around men, loosen my morals, and be okay with doing things I previously never ever considered simply because it was easier to talk with and be gushed over by OM then it was to tackle my ugly marriage, face my angry husband, and admit my M was likely over. It was much more fun getting OM's attention than it was for me to call a lawyer.

I came to discover my reasons -- those that made sense to me (considering how nonsensical it all was otherwise) and it turns out my reasons are true -- I lowered my boundaries and made poor decisions that allowed my vulnerabilities to be tempted. And once they were and it felt great, I threw my better judgments aside and knowingly opted to selfishly satisfy my desires instead of facing up to and doing what I knew was best for my family.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
There are those of us who are not stupid enough to be honest with someone who is in a position to cause us major harm.

So are those who are honest with someone in a position to do harm stupid? Aren't all adults in a position to do harm, thanks to weapons and poisons and "accidents"?

Do you believe because I and others who are honest with their Hs, who have a history of emotional and verbal abuse, are stupid?

Is it okay to also apply a derogatory label to a person who is willingly with someone who is in a position to cause him/her major harm? I don't believe so but I think it's a good question to think about.

Maybe we should consider the possibility that it is dishonesty and the omission of information that entices those capable of doing harm to act out in harmful ways. My H gets far more angry when he discovers a lie then when he hears a truth that he doesnt like.

I know about willingly being with someone who may not have my best interests. Yet I tell the truth for my own self-worth and integrity. I want to make decisions based on honest information and I work to provide that same courtesy for others.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
My observation is that with very rare exceptions, most are motivated to get their spouse back to secure their pound of flesh, often an achievable goal, the MB program as executed by the forum is in my view being the best vehicle to secure that very outcome. I've now seen it effectively used towards that end numerous times.

I have seen the opposite here on MA and on MB. I see BSs wanting to get their WSs back so they can improve their Ms. Who are these "most" that you refer too? Who are all these people who have compelled you to state that most BSs are motivated to get their spouses back "to secure the pound of flesh?

The recovered marriages I see on MA -- including those that I know used MB as one of if not their only guide -- were motivated to stay with their spouse and have a better M, not stay married just to punish their WS. And from what I see throughout this forum, this desire to have a better M is the rule, not the exception.

The many BSs who are in recovering or recovered marriages who also post, those whom I can think of, are not beating their FWSs over the head regarding the A or using the A to practice dominance over their M. I can name a couple dozen couples that I've met through the MB and MA forums who have caring and respectful Ms where seemingly both partners are lovingly working to keep their M among the most fulfilling and meaningful and special relationships in their lives.

End t/j

AtTheEnd, what snapped me out of the A what made me end contact with the OM was a combination of an ultimatum by OMs wife and my own pride what very little was left of it.

The OM's BW found emails and he confessed and told her about the A. On the spot of discovery, he texted me that it was over, he did not love me, he loved his W, and was going to try to save his M. His wife also texted me and said if I ever contacted her H, she would tell my H everything. So the ultimatum/threat from her and me not wanting to let OM think he had me so completely under his thumb that I would contact him after he clearly chose his W over me those two things ended the A.

But what LdG cautioned against was indeed the case for me. Even though the A ended and contact stopped, I still carried OM with me in my mind for several months after. The physical contact had stopped but he lived with me in my thoughts and as LdG suggested might be the case, the A raged on in there for quite a while.

I ended up confessing the A to my H 4 months after it ended. I didn't love my H and I told him because I was consumed by shame and because I thought he deserved to know. I believed we were going to D. (I thought him knowing might get him to do the filing something I was too chicken to do, leading back to what I wrote above about not wanting to face the failure of my M.)

What got me out of the fog and got OM out of my head ended up happening after D-day. My H and I experienced several extremely intense months of sharing, hurt, honesty, confusion, euphoria, shame, intimacy, and many other emotions. We also many many hours together since I was unemployed and my H works from home. Those two things honest sharing and time spent together are what I believe snapped me out of it going through it all with H. I told him all that he wanted to know. He told me what I wanted to know. We had known each other since high school yet we discovered new things about each other during that time.

Seeing him care and seeing parts of him that I hadn't seen in a long time or maybe had never seen and liking what I saw helped bring me back. He admitted he was flawed and that he cared for me. We were honest with each other I think because we wanted the other to have all the data so s/he could make whatever decision was best for him/her. At least, that's why I decided to be O&H so H could make the best decision for him based on truths. The lying was so hard to live with.

Our D-day was almost three years ago. We've had one heck of a roller-coaster ride since and I'm struggling with things between us that existed before my A even today as my H might be too. But we're better now than we've been in almost 9 years. Still more to do but we're better.

So to answer two of your questions What snapped me out of it was the ultimatum and remembering integrity is important to me from me and from others.

What brought me out of the fog was seeing my H care for me after believing for several years that he didn't. Once I believed that and could see how different that kind of care was verses the kind that the OM offered (the kind that also required me to disrespect myself and my vows and the people I had promised to care for), the fog was gone. I saw my H for who he was and the FOM for who he was. The comparison helped me see more clearly.

This has become way too long so if you want to know more about how long it took, how I felt, and where my H was through all of this, you can read my thread on The Way Station forum under "The Lighthouse" board.

Good luck to you, AtTheEnd.

Last edited by Looking4; 09/13/11 05:56 PM.

Married 19 years
Two children - DS12 & DD10
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Looking4] #156942
09/13/11 05:43 PM
09/13/11 05:43 PM
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Amadahy Offline
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I am a FWW.

I had CRAPPY boundaries that directly lead to me seeking out OM to inflate my constantly collapsing self esteem. The ONS had nothing to do with what H lacked...everything to do with what I lacked...possibly it could be linked to some of Hs behaviors that helped deflate my self esteem but that is just the issue right...self esteem needs to come from self. A strong person knows who they are regardless of what their spouse or anyone else does. Crappy boundaries AGAIN...allowing other peoples actions and opinions to define and shape who I was rather than owning who I am and deciding for myself what and who I will be.

and what snapped me out of the fog was being raped by the OM and his friends. CRAPPY BOUNDARIES lead to hurt, heart ache and in my case actually PHYSICAL ASSAULT.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: flowmom] #156943
09/13/11 05:44 PM
09/13/11 05:44 PM
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Amadahy Offline
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Originally Posted By: flowmom
This discussion just reinforces to me that I am not a fan of labelling people as wayward, former wayward, etc. The WS/WAS/LBS/BS can be a useful shorthand for communicating in the forum, but I find the whole "scarlet letter" vibe when referring to people who have had affair(s) in the past rather distasteful. We have all made bad choices in the past, in different areas of life. We are more than our past choices and we should all be focusing on the micro-decisions we make every day - decisions to be honest, to communicate, to connect, to improve ourselves, etc.
i agree with this.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: catperson] #156972
09/13/11 06:44 PM
09/13/11 06:44 PM
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Medc Offline
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Originally Posted By: catperson
IDK, it seems pretty plain that former means no longer doing it.


doesn't seem that simple to me.

I think a former wayward has assumed all the responsibility for their actions AND has done all that they can to make amends. They do not blame shift or offer excuses for their behavior. They don't continue to lie to their spouse. People that do so are IMHO, still wayward.

A former wayward would NEVER have another affair.




Last edited by Medc; 09/13/11 06:45 PM.


Don't go shaking the [Bleep!] tree and expect an angel to fall out.

Liars lie and cheaters cheat...know it and don't be surprised. Protect yourself.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Amadahy] #156987
09/13/11 07:08 PM
09/13/11 07:08 PM
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for to fade Offline
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That is horrible, how are you emotionally now?

tink

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Chrysalis] #157009
09/13/11 07:50 PM
09/13/11 07:50 PM
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Looking4 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chrysalis
Originally Posted By: catperson
IDK, it seems pretty plain that former means no longer doing it.


Lots of people quit their affairs but do not take steps to fix their side of the marriage street. That to me is not "former" wayward. It is another affair waiting to happen.

As for the question that started this thread, the experience in my marriage was that he didn't "snap" out of it-- it was a long, grueling, process for both of us. I look at him today and he is a different man. I have no desire to see that other guy return!

"Former" waywards have given up the sense of entitlement that allowed them to make the affair choice in the first place, and replaced it with humility and grace.

IMHO.

And one more thing. I don't think we have the right to award or deny the "F" letter to our forum friends. That is to be negotiated and worked out between spouses, and it is hard work. What we can legitimately do is confront a specific instance of unclear thinking or misplaced attitude, with kindness and truth.

Kindness without truth is not kindness at all. Truth without kindness is going to fall on deaf ears, or drive the struggler farther into their woes.

This is an EXCELLENT post, Chrysalis, from start to finish.

And FWIW, I agree with every single word.


Married 19 years
Two children - DS12 & DD10
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Amadahy] #157015
09/13/11 08:15 PM
09/13/11 08:15 PM
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Looking4 Offline
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Originally Posted By: flowmom
This discussion just reinforces to me that I am not a fan of labelling people as wayward, former wayward, etc. The WS/WAS/LBS/BS can be a useful shorthand for communicating in the forum, but I find the whole "scarlet letter" vibe when referring to people who have had affair(s) in the past rather distasteful. We have all made bad choices in the past, in different areas of life. We are more than our past choices and we should all be focusing on the micro-decisions we make every day - decisions to be honest, to communicate, to connect, to improve ourselves, etc.

Flowmom -- I don't get around MA much so I'm curious... Based on your perception, is there a scarlet letter vibe here on MA?

And AtTheEnd?... Is our discussion and it's zigs and zags helping you at all?


Married 19 years
Two children - DS12 & DD10
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Looking4] #157019
09/13/11 08:19 PM
09/13/11 08:19 PM
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LadyGrey Offline
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Originally Posted By: Looking4
Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
If you hear what we are told to say -- "the reason I had an affair is that I have poor boundaries around men/women," you may feel better, but you aren't getting good data as I SERIOUSLY doubt there are many unfaithful spouses who really believe that.


I understand this is your opinion, LdG. You were clear to not state it as fact. I haven't polled any unfaithful spouses (current) so maybe few unfaithful spouses would say that. However, if you're talking about formerly unfaithful spouses (past), I am one of them and I do believe that is why I decided to cheat.


I fear that for the umpteenth time, my message is stumbling on my very strict definition of causation.

I don't believe many unfaithful spouses would agree that poor boundaries were the sole and proximate cause of the affair. There are, in my opinion, always other factors at play, like, for example, the availability of someone with whom to have an affair, his or her presence and availability also being causative factors.

In my opinion and experience, poor boundaries allow for the affair, but don't cause it, one reason I am a big beleiver in EP's as they ensure that regardless of what is going on in my life and in my heart, I won't be making that particular mistake again. I've had the same boundaries around men my whole adult life, but I wasn't vulnerable. I became vulnerable because of a confluence of events, and my poor boundaries put me in the position where another man was meeting my needs. Had I had better boundaries, I would not have been in that position.

Originally Posted By: L4
I wasn't told to say anything. And even if I was, I don't have to say it. No one can make me or anyone else do or say anything. I had an affair in very large part due to my poor boundaries. And I really believe that.


I was told to say exactly that and not elaborate. You are correct - no one made me, but I was trying to do the right thing.

Look, I'm not saying that is a BAD thing to say or that it's not true - I'm saying that in my opinion it is an incomplete answer. The recipient isn't getting data which may be valuable depending upon the desired outcome.

On the other hand, there really isn't an answer that is acceptable even though it may be true.

Originally Posted By: L4
When I was in my A I believed I deserved whatever made me happy and because I blamed my H for my unhappiness, I also mostly blamed him for me having an A.


I think I'm also stumbling on the concept of blame which has an element of causation to it. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. There are actions that make a given result more of less likely.

Originally Posted By: L4
While I was cheating, I didn't take into account that I was also responsible for my unhappiness and that I was the one at fault for the A not my H. I mean, he wasn't the one having late night phone conversations with the OM and he wasn't the one who lied to meet OM in the parking lot. I was.

I chose to have an affair because I thought it better to feel good in my fantasy land with the fantasy man. That was far more exciting for me then confronting the failure of my M. I chose to lower my boundaries around men, loosen my morals, and be okay with doing things I previously never ever considered simply because it was easier to talk with and be gushed over by OM then it was to tackle my ugly marriage, face my angry husband, and admit my M was likely over. It was much more fun getting OM's attention than it was for me to call a lawyer.

I came to discover my reasons -- those that made sense to me (considering how nonsensical it all was otherwise) and it turns out my reasons are true -- I lowered my boundaries and made poor decisions that allowed my vulnerabilities to be tempted. And once they were and it felt great, I threw my better judgments aside and knowingly opted to selfishly satisfy my desires instead of facing up to and doing what I knew was best for my family.


My reasons were different from yours. My understanding of how it happened is different from yours. And that is OK because I am different from you and my life is different from yours.

I think the important thing is that we honestly evaluate our vulnerabilities and weaknesses and seek to shore up those areas. For example, I know I tend to give into my fear. I am working on facing my fear and speaking more honestly, which of course requires that I know what I think/feel which is a whole separate challenge. I may not be progressing at a speed that some find satisfactory, but I am progressing. It's tricky for me. It's easy for others. Others may find aspects of their relationship tricky that I find easy. We are all different.

The sin, to me, would be if we failed to grow from the experience.

Originally Posted By: L4
Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
There are those of us who are not stupid enough to be honest with someone who is in a position to cause us major harm.



So are those who are honest with someone in a position to do harm stupid? Aren't all adults in a position to do harm, thanks to weapons and poisons and "accidents"?

Do you believe because I and others who are honest with their Hs, who have a history of emotional and verbal abuse, are stupid?

Is it okay to also apply a derogatory label to a person who is willingly with someone who is in a position to cause him/her major harm? I don't believe so but I think it's a good question to think about.

Maybe we should consider the possibility that it is dishonesty and the omission of information that entices those capable of doing harm to act out in harmful ways. My H gets far more angry when he discovers a lie then when he hears a truth that he doesnt like.

I know about willingly being with someone who may not have my best interests. Yet I tell the truth for my own self-worth and integrity. I want to make decisions based on honest information and I work to provide that same courtesy for others.


I apologize for offending you. We have differences in our lives which color how we interpret this statement.

Originally Posted By: L4
Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
My observation is that with very rare exceptions, most are motivated to get their spouse back to secure their pound of flesh, often an achievable goal, the MB program as executed by the forum is in my view being the best vehicle to secure that very outcome. I've now seen it effectively used towards that end numerous times.


I have seen the opposite here on MA and on MB. I see BSs wanting to get their WSs back so they can improve their Ms. Who are these "most" that you refer too? Who are all these people who have compelled you to state that most BSs are motivated to get their spouses back "to secure the pound of flesh?

The recovered marriages I see on MA -- including those that I know used MB as one of if not their only guide -- were motivated to stay with their spouse and have a better M, not stay married just to punish their WS. And from what I see throughout this forum, this desire to have a better M is the rule, not the exception.
[/quote]

It is possible you and I could read the same posts and have diametrically opposed opinions on this point. It is also possible that you would not include on the list those who beat up on surrogate unfaithful spouses but claim to have recovered. I do include them.

Originally Posted By: L4
The many BSs who are in recovering or recovered marriages who also post, those whom I can think of, are not beating their FWSs over the head regarding the A or using the A to practice dominance over their M. I can name a couple dozen couples that I've met through the MB and MA forums who have caring and respectful Ms where seemingly both partners are lovingly working to keep their M among the most fulfilling and meaningful and special relationships in their lives.


I think that is terrific and I applaud those who choose not use the affair to beat up the unfaithful spouse, real or surrogate.

Originally Posted By: L4
The physical contact had stopped but he lived with me in my thoughts and as LdG suggested might be the case, the A raged on in there for quite a while.


This was the main point I was trying to make in response to the "surviving initial contact with the enemy" metaphor, that while the end of the affair might look good on paper from the standpoint of the faithful spouse, the unfaithful spouse has to finish the process. The timing may be unfortunate in that those weeks following the official end may coincide with unpleasant happenings in the marriage, making it harder to stick with NC. At least that was my experience.

The phrase "snapping out of it" implies to me an event, and I think some may experience it as a process. Being alert to that possibility may be helpful.

(As a total aside, mentally picturing a huge black cockroach flying right at my face when I would think about the Guy actually really worked - and quickly too! If you are following along and struggling with ending it, try it!)

I don't post my thoughts here because I'm sitting around waiting to get some popularity award. I am well aware of what I am supposed to think, and maybe some day I will. I post them because if it helps someone like futureunknown understand his wife a little better, he may find healing in that understanding and avoid certain pitfalls in the future - like my bet is he will keep a close eye on the "hope" ball - or it helps someone understand that their wandering spouse may need assurance that returning to the marriage isn't emotional suicide, then it is worth being spoken to the way I am spoken to and reading the things I read about myself.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Looking4] #157020
09/13/11 08:36 PM
09/13/11 08:36 PM
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AtTheEnd? Offline OP
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Thanks for all of the input and please continue the discussion. This is all very informative and insightful. My stbx has OM and they are very serious. He is separated from his W and last I heard intends to D his W, although he is keeping relationship with stbx a secret.

The D is almost complete and I'm moving forward with my life. I'm looking to purchase a home and start dating. Things are looking good and I believe it's sad to put an end to this part of my life, but it's the only option. I'm worth much more than being given, and what I've received. I'm told that I'm completely to blame for all of this, so there wasn't ever a chance to get through.

I dread all interaction with stbx, but sharing three children makes that difficult to avoid. She appears happy and gleeful, but I try not to let it bother me. It's shallow, but I let the appearance and qualities of the OM effect me. It's like a slap in the face the level that she has stooped. I believe affair-down was a term that I read somewhere, although this isn't really an affair if we are D. It's just him.

Onward with life, and I do have to say that it does look very positive. I have quite a bit to offer and no longer fear of the unknown. I've dealt with the most difficult thing in my life, and came out stronger and healthier. I have a lingering "why?", but I'll never get a satisfactory answer, and I'm not certain that I care any longer.

Thanks to all, and please continue.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #157023
09/13/11 08:40 PM
09/13/11 08:40 PM
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If you haven't done so already, tell the other betrayed spouse about the affair. She should not have to be kept in the dark.

Pay zero attention to anything that comes from the mouth of your STBX. She is a liar and a cheat and is not to be believed about anything.

You definitely ARE worth A LOT more than what she has given you. I hope you have a great father's rights attorney that will get you the best custody arrangement possible.

You will be fine. Be the best dad you can be and learn from this experience.




Don't go shaking the [Bleep!] tree and expect an angel to fall out.

Liars lie and cheaters cheat...know it and don't be surprised. Protect yourself.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: ] #157036
09/13/11 09:08 PM
09/13/11 09:08 PM
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Amadahy Offline
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Originally Posted By: tinkerbell
That is horrible, how are you emotionally now?

tink


i am okay.
When one is dealing with the guilt of cheating it is hard.
When one has to compound that with the knowledge that their cheating, their betrayal, what THEY did directly resulted in their rape.

Rape is normally something outside of a womans control.

Mine was a result of my infidelity...so lets load about another truck load of "what a crappy person am I" and spread it around my self esteem garden.

That being said...i own my mistakes and I am working towards being a strong person who does not allow men to manipulate her or use her...any man...ever.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Amadahy] #157051
09/13/11 09:55 PM
09/13/11 09:55 PM
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L4:

I wanted to state that that was a real fine post you made up there.

SFB


Finding an ethical way to deal with pain, fear, disappointment etc..is part of the experience of becoming a stronger person...one who is driven by compassion instead of compulsion...ie I have a legitimate reason to be stressed out right now...however, my response to it will determine how others percieve me, and myself. (quoting Star*Fish)
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Amadahy] #157075
09/13/11 11:09 PM
09/13/11 11:09 PM
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frown you didn't deserve it......never did you

Last edited by tinkerbell; 09/13/11 11:20 PM.
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