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WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? #147388
08/17/11 09:19 PM
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This subject came up in another thread and felt it deserved it's own. What brings the WS/WAS out of their "fog"? How long does it take? What is the next step for the WS? How do they feel? Where is the BS at this point? How often does this snapping out of it happen (possibly never)? Once they our out of it, do they want to return, or do they just move onto another relationship?

Feel free to add more and expand on this subject.

-AtTheEnd?

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #147391
08/17/11 09:25 PM
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Does it matter if it's pre or post D?

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #147397
08/17/11 09:40 PM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
I can tell you that my H did not snap me out of the fog. A friend did not snap me out of the fog. A family member did not snap me out of the fog.

Disgust with my own behavior and deceit snapped me out of the fog. The unrelenting tapping of my conscience, the unescapable reality of what I was doing. I wasn't woo'ed out, begged out, planned out...I saw what I had become.....I couldn't stand it....I tried to keep going.....I couldn't do it. The A ended, but that wasn't enough. I tried to be a better wife for a few weeks but that wasn't enough. I had to confess. Because him knowing was......the only right solution at the time.

And if I had any doubt as to whether what I had done was inexcusable....his hurt and anger and the way it affected the kids......yeah....the last of the fog dissipated. But there was nothing H did to woo me back or show me how superior he was.....because he had no idea.

Now sometimes the BS finds out, and that makes it different. But still....it's just like any other life change. If it doesn't come from the person who needs to change.....it isn't really change. And no matter how nicely we try to package control.....we just can't control another person.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #147475
08/18/11 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: AtTheEnd?
Once they our out of it, do they want to return, or do they just move onto another relationship?


Well, I don't think my X has come out of the fog, and may never, but I and the OMW exposed the first affair and it imploded as a result. At that point, my X was just PISSED OFF!!! Within 3 weeks she had a new guy sleeping at my house. nod

Hoping to hear from some others that have experience.


Me45 - S13, D11
Disconnected 7/1/12

I'm a brand new sky to hang the stars upon tonight......
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Danf] #147490
08/18/11 12:55 AM
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I see these threads -- like the "Why" thread --as wanting a single, dispositive, satisfactory answer.

I appreciate the need to lump us all in under the "wayward" category and assign us a specific script, like rewriting the marital history, and motivations, like being selfish and entitled.

I am unconvinced that that is helpful towards reconciling marriages.

I believe every answer is as unique as the people involved.

For me, I didn't "snap" out if it. I white knuckled through it because I KNEW I should NOT be making decisions in my state of mind, and I wanted the affair over so I could take a steely eyed look at my marriage and then file for divorce.

Not a reason I have heard anywhere which highlights to me the futility of trying to assign a single set of reasons to any point in the continuum.



Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: LadyGrey] #147523
08/18/11 02:00 AM
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No ladygrey no lumping, I find this helping me in the hell I am in, I really greatly appreciate anything said by anyone.

I want to say, I found out as they were driving by, long story short we moved and rocky was the road, I wanted to talk to not act like it didn't happen, he wanted to act like it didn't happen. He layed there one day saying he was a senior citizen waiting to die. He said the war on tv was too depressing for us to go for drives, a park, things together. Within days he left and then I heard how he like to talk just not to me and such terrible mean things it was like talking to the devil, so much for the sadness of the war.

I really want to get out of this in my mind, so.

heremainsfaithful, yes no one can control another, and it means nothing unless coming from inside each one of us.

The most confounding thing I am feeling is, not being able to talk to WS. If I could, just talk about this, maybe I would be fine moving on. But to hold it in, I am a talker, and a worrier, and so that is a combo of frustration.

I don't want anyone lumped, heremainsfaithful mentioned something on another thread and wow it really helped me, it did. I am a mess.

I don't want anyone offended. You are right ladygrey, every answer is unique, but, here I am and others that are a shattered tattering and it helps us.

tink

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: LadyGrey] #147525
08/18/11 02:05 AM
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i snapped out of it when OM chose the beach over me. true story.

(not that i don't think the beach is freakin' awesome)


may came home with a smooth round stone
as small as a world and as large as alone. -- e. e. cummings
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: ohmy_marie] #147529
08/18/11 02:08 AM
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the beach? you weren't ready he left without you never to be seen again?

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: ] #147540
08/18/11 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: tinkerbell

The most confounding thing I am feeling is, not being able to talk to WS. If I could, just talk about this, maybe I would be fine moving on.

tink


Tink, this really struck me. It has been years and years since I viewed my husband as my confidant, but I do remember that urge to sort through my feeling about him with....him.

And I think all along he viewed me as his confidant. I won't share some things out of respect for him, but I was astonished - truly slack jawed - at how important I was to him.

Who knew?


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: ] #147547
08/18/11 02:34 AM
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tink... forgive me, but your assumption made me laugh. we did NOT have plans to "escape into the sunset together" and live happily ever after at the beach. far from it.

OM was at the beach with his wife and a few other couples. they were renting a beachfront condo for the week. OM told me he would only be at the beach for 2 days, and then return home to work and spend some time with me (his wife was planning to stay the entire week with their friends).

OM did return home for a day, tied up some loose ends at work, and then headed back to the beach the very next day. his reasoning was that he could chat with me online, at the beach, just as easily as he could chat with me from home.

i knew i was done at that moment.


may came home with a smooth round stone
as small as a world and as large as alone. -- e. e. cummings
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: ohmy_marie] #147556
08/18/11 02:51 AM
08/18/11 02:51 AM
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For menmy stbx awoke from her fog when I moved on with
my life and started to date ow. It took 14 months,


Find a passion and pursue it.Fall in love.Dream Big.drink wine, eat good food and spend quality time with good friends.laugh everyday.tell stories. learn more. never give up. be grateful try new things be. happy. and above all, make every moment count.
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #147564
08/18/11 03:01 AM
08/18/11 03:01 AM
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There is no one size fits all or magic pill that works on a WS. Anymore than 1 drug makes a WS.

Given that POV, what does bring the WS out of the fog? One strong thing that often works is $$ or the lack thereof. Remember WS/OP and the A is built on greed. Take that POV and work from there. Anything tied with greed put in reverse helps kill the A.

However, if $$ is not a factor, then the options get less. Sometimes the WS comes to their senses, most don't. Since the A is built on greed, sometimes the WS and OP's own greed put them at odds and breaks the A.

Where the BS is at that point will vary. All the more reason for the BS to identify their boundaries (personal and marital), implement them, make changes, secure finances and family, then move forward.

IF the WS comes back, it s/b as an Xws NOT a Ws. An Xws with a recovery plan is what is needed. Take me back as is and let's split the bills is not a good start. Slows or kills recovery. Remember the BS has been through a lot and their tolerance level can hit the critical stage.

There's more.....

JMHO,
Orchid

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Orchid2] #147577
08/18/11 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: Orchid2
Since the A is built on greed


I'm not sure that is always true. I wonder if some affairs aren't built on anger and grief and a level of despair that would be positively SHOCKING to the faithful spouse were the unfaithful spouse ever given the room to express it.

I've read pretty much everything out there on the web on the subject, and seen not one program which allows for that.

Books do. Al does.

I'm trying to be the difference I want to see.

Originally Posted By: orchid
Remember the BS has been through a lot and their tolerance level can hit the critical stage.


Remember that some unfaithful spouses have been through a lot and their tolerance levels can hit a critical stage.

It isn't as simple as people seem to desperately want it to be.

Last edited by LadyGrey; 08/18/11 03:28 AM.

Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: LadyGrey] #147584
08/18/11 03:35 AM
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orchid,

re: the A is built on greed

i don't get this? you mean if the WS realizes he/she can't financially support both the M and the A, then the M might have the upperhand... and the WS will likely return to the M to save $$? thus knocking them out of the fog?

trying to understand. thanks, marie


may came home with a smooth round stone
as small as a world and as large as alone. -- e. e. cummings
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: ohmy_marie] #147586
08/18/11 03:40 AM
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My X said that she "didn't care about the money." "She would survive somehow." "It's all about the money for you."

Well she cares about the money now. Still doesn't seem to care about the family though. Even if she did, after all the damage that has been done, I don't know that I could forgive her. Ever.


Me45 - S13, D11
Disconnected 7/1/12

I'm a brand new sky to hang the stars upon tonight......
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: LadyGrey] #147647
08/18/11 09:02 AM
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Justification of an A is not healthy to any M. If the M was already rocky due to other issues, then deal with the issues. What benefit to have an A to fix a M? Show me the one where the A improved or saved the M and I will show you 100 broken M and families.

The A is based on greed and a cowardly act.

Fix the M or get a D instead of bringing in other people into an already hurt R.

Even Xws' know the A is not a recommended solution.

The question is about WS', not Xws'.

Orchid


Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: ohmy_marie] #147648
08/18/11 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: ohmy_marie
orchid,

re: the A is built on greed

i don't get this? you mean if the WS realizes he/she can't financially support both the M and the A, then the M might have the upperhand... and the WS will likely return to the M to save $$? thus knocking them out of the fog?

trying to understand. thanks, marie


Marie:

You have it backwards.

When the WS realizes they have to support the A and the M, the M is the one that goes...

When the A burns thru ALL the $$ and the AP dumps them because they are broke, unemployed, maxed out on the credit cards, then they might come back to the M because the BS may be willing to help them dig out.

Financial issues have a tendency to help De-Fog wayward ones. Sometimes it just makes them worse. They make all the bad financial decisions that they have made your fault.

SFB


Finding an ethical way to deal with pain, fear, disappointment etc..is part of the experience of becoming a stronger person...one who is driven by compassion instead of compulsion...ie I have a legitimate reason to be stressed out right now...however, my response to it will determine how others percieve me, and myself. (quoting Star*Fish)
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: ohmy_marie] #147649
08/18/11 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: ohmy_marie
orchid,

re: the A is built on greed

i don't get this? you mean if the WS realizes he/she can't financially support both the M and the A, then the M might have the upperhand... and the WS will likely return to the M to save $$? thus knocking them out of the fog?

trying to understand. thanks, marie


The A is built on greed, look at what the WS is willing to risk to keep or justify the A. Is that a selfless or selfish act?

$$ has not emotion. One either has it or not. WS' tend to have a broken calculator in their head. I recall my WS (at the time) tell me that as long as I paid the bills he would continue to spend without a care to fund the A. Ow blamed me for lack of funds. As soon as I realized my drive to pay our bills was enabling the A, the debt started piling but I was not longer enabling the A. This put a real damper on the A since they pair of whatnuts couldn't go play anymore.

Remember this is about the status of a WS not an Xws. Once reality starts showing up on the horizon, it is usually a matter of when that the Ws begins to shed their WS skin.

From your experiences what have you seen knock some Xws' to their senses?

Remember this is a general statement, not a hard fast rule. Still as soon as the BS stops being manipulated into enabling the A, the better. In many cases it helps kill the A.

No guarantees though.

JMHO,
Orchid

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Orchid2] #147692
08/18/11 01:30 PM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
I see greed in many ways. There is greed for $$. But there are other types of greed.

I never saw my A in terms of greed. At the time I would have said the opposite - I would have said I was starving and the A was about survival (I know this is wrong thinking; just sharing my thought THEN). But the greed came in when my need took precedence over my family and my morals. And when I wanted both my family AND the A. I would have said I didn't. I would have said then that I didn't want H and was just sticking around because he needed my paycheck and the insurance (he was in school). But there were ways around that - separation so he could still be on the insurance, him slowing down school and getting another job....Me paying alimony.

I was greedy in that I wanted what I wanted without it having to disrupt the rest of my life or make me feel guilty. Was I desperate? In some ways yes. Was my M lonely and invisible and sex-starved and dark? Absolutely. But I DID have choices.....the easiest and most convenient one FOR ME at the time was to stay married and not be the "bad guy" while having something else secret to "scratch my itch." Again, at the time I never would have called it that because even wayward I knew how bad THAT sounded. So I dressed it up and made it all "Bridges of Madison County."

I should have just SAID "I cannot do this anymore," and then if things did not change I should have left. But still....I keep coming back to snapping out of it. I am basing this strictly on knowing H for 24 years.....IF he had found out before I confessed....I would have had a brief window to decide, and then he would have been gone. G-O-N-E. There would have been no six months or a year or five years of "being the better option." It would have been "Stop this." And then there would have been "We're done....and I'm going to try to get the kids since you are boinking their X teacher."

And if down the road after a D or whatever I had come to my senses and he was still open....THEN he would have talked reconciliation. But not until it was done and I was repentant.

And IMO....THAT is how it should be.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #147709
08/18/11 01:53 PM
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I snapped out of it when I caught FOM in a lie and realized I was #2 in his life. I didn't like the thought of being #2 and ended it. Yes, I should have known this all along, but all the other lies made me believe differently at the time.

Hindsight being what it is I was #2 the whole time, just didn't see it.


Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: Lifechoice] #147763
08/18/11 03:41 PM
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Quote:
from orchid: The A is built on greed, look at what the WS is willing to risk to keep or justify the A. Is that a selfless or selfish act?


i consider greed and selfishness to be two separate emotions/sins (tho, i agree that they are similar in nature).

no doubt, affairs are acts of selfishness.

but greed? i think that's a strong statement and truly depends on the aggressiveness (and possibly monetary/job status) of the WSs.

i agree that a BS should NOT be funding an on-going affair. i would even more strongly state that i do not think a BS should be "funding" an on-going A in any way, shape, or form (be it meeting monetary needs, emotional needs, security needs, etc.).

Quote:
from orchid: Remember this is about the status of a WS not an Xws. Once reality starts showing up on the horizon, it is usually a matter of when that the Ws begins to shed their WS skin.


i was attempting to answer the original question using my WS brain (even tho i am a FWS at present).

perhaps the original question was meant more for the WS that has actually left the marital home?-- whereas my A never reached that state. i left the A prior to being discovered and on my own free will.

Quote:
From your experiences what have you seen knock some Xws' to their senses?

  • when one WS is willing to D but the AP is not
  • when the WS feels smothered by the AP
  • when the WS feels underappreciated by the AP
  • when the WS is forced to choose the M or the AP
  • when the WS is being threatened or blackmailed by the AP
  • when the WS is being threatened or blackmailed by the BS
  • when the WS is being threatened or blackmailed by the AP's BS
  • when the WS does the math and decides to stay put
  • when the WS realizes the grass might not be greener on the OS
  • when the WS has a public reputation to consider
  • when the WS is being pressured from family/friends to stay M'd
  • when the WS was never emotionally involved with AP


may came home with a smooth round stone
as small as a world and as large as alone. -- e. e. cummings
Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: ohmy_marie] #147768
08/18/11 04:02 PM
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In my situation, the fog lifted after the affair was exposed. I contacted the OW husband's brother and SIL (as well as some other family members, but the one couple was the primary contact) because I could not get in touch with OWH. Of course, they talked with OW and OWH. Needless to say, she was ticked as was my H. However, within days the affair was over. Within days after the affair was over we were back in the counselor's office at H's request. Not too long after that he was talking reconciliation.

I'm not sure if it was the exposure or the affair ending that actually brough my FWH out of the fog. Probably a combination.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #147781
08/18/11 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: AtTheEnd?
This subject came up in another thread and felt it deserved it's own. What brings the WS/WAS out of their "fog"? How long does it take? What is the next step for the WS? How do they feel? Where is the BS at this point? How often does this snapping out of it happen (possibly never)? Once they our out of it, do they want to return, or do they just move onto another relationship?

Feel free to add more and expand on this subject.

-AtTheEnd?


Aren't you making this more complicated than necessary?

Why does it matter?

What does it say about you that you would feel the need to wait for a WAS to come out of their fog when they're having an affair/relationship with another person when they should be in a committed relationship with you?

Do you think so little of yourself and equate such low value to yourself that you should wait your turn to be with your WAS after they're done with the affair relationship they're currently having? If you're going to consider waiting for them, maybe ask them if you can watch them when they're being intimate with each other, if you have to wait, might as well sit and enjoy the show for as long as it lasts right? Might even learn some new moves maybe?

If you're waiting for your WAS to snap out of their "fog", then you aka "the BS" (nice term) are living in limbo, waiting for someone else to make a decision with regards to how you should live your life. Does that really work for you?

If your husband/wife wants to be you, they'll do what it takes to be with you, they'll end the affair, they'll apologize, they'll work on your relationship, they will make you a priority - that's when they want to be with you.

When they don't want to be with you, they do what a WAS does, they do their thing, they don't pay attention to you, they don't care about what effects having an affair with another person does to you because they're all about taking care of themselves and being with the person they want to be with.

What should the LBS do?
Let them go, move on with your life without them, the LBS that stays where they are waiting for the WAS to make a decision will in the end, wind up up without a spouse and will have wasted a ton of time in the process just to find out what they currently already know, that their WAS doesn't want to be with them.

What tends to jolt quite a few WAS's into second guessing their decisions and consider going back to their spouses that they cheated on? When the LBS (you) shows them that you don't want them anymore and that you've moved on with your life which includes (dare I say it) social interaction (aka dating) with members of the opposite sex. When you finally make that decision and really move on with your life and just enjoy a great life for yourself instead of acting depressed, emotional and angry about the situation, you will end up feeling much better if not great, the pressure of pursuing your cheating spouse will no longer burden your shoulders, the pressure of coming up with a million ways to win back your cheating spouse will be gone and you will finally experience living in the moment for yourself and realize just how precious your life really is and that if your cheating spouse doesn't want to be with you, you will be fine, better than fine, you will be great because you will consider it their loss, not yours. You have taken back control of your life and made a decision to live a great one without your cheating spouse and since you have stopped waiting for your spouse to snap out of their "fog", you have made the decision from them and taken back control from them that they have over your life.

Once you have accomplished this,
you may possibly even find your spouse warming up to you again, finding reasons to be with you, to make contact with you, to phone, text and email you, to friend you on crackbook, to ask you how you're doing, ask you out for a coffee or drink sometime, you may find yourself asked out for dinner, you may find that they start making a lot of physical contact with you when they are near you, touching you, almost invading your personal space to be near you, bumping into you at odd places (grocery store, gym, movies), you may find them buying you gifts or doing favors for you out of the blue, you may find that they give you cards and remember your birthdays and take you out for dinner when previously you may have been used to them forgetting your birthday altogether.

This is all very possible, and it may not happen at all.

Either way, you'll be ok because you've taken back control of your life and moved on without your spouse, it is their loss, let them work for you if they really want to be with you - chasing and waiting for a cheating spouse never works, ever.




Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: LadyGrey] #147785
08/18/11 05:03 PM
08/18/11 05:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,652
rob x Offline
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rob x  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,652
Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Originally Posted By: Orchid2
Since the A is built on greed


I'm not sure that is always true. I wonder if some affairs aren't built on anger and grief and a level of despair that would be positively SHOCKING to the faithful spouse were the unfaithful spouse ever given the room to express it.

I've read pretty much everything out there on the web on the subject, and seen not one program which allows for that.

Books do. Al does.

I'm trying to be the difference I want to see.


Originally Posted By: orchid
Remember the BS has been through a lot and their tolerance level can hit the critical stage.


Remember that some unfaithful spouses have been through a lot and their tolerance levels can hit a critical stage.

It isn't as simple as people seem to desperately want it to be.


I've read this point a few times LG, in similar posts you've made and others have made, do you feel you can't be completely honest with your spouse? Or couldn't be honest with them at the time? What held you back? Why not just spit it out or yell it out for that matter?

"Hey you, I'm not happy, you don't take care of my needs, if you don't change what you're doing, I'm going to find someone else to be with because I can't continue being in this relationship anymore the way it is right now, I've been feeling like this forever and I finally need to let you know that I'm at my breaking point."

Or something like that.

I think sometimes people think it's more difficult or make it more difficult because it's quite possible they've been used to covering up how they really feel for quite some time that when they're finally ready to spill the beans, they can't because of the habit they've taught themselves of holding back for fear of hurting the other person, for fear of the other person's reaction, etc.

Re: WS/WAS: What snaps them out of it? [Re: rob x] #147818
08/18/11 06:11 PM
08/18/11 06:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,446
Brotherly Love
gr8 day 2b alive Offline
Member
gr8 day 2b alive  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,446
Brotherly Love
Quote:
I think sometimes people think it's more difficult or make it more difficult because it's quite possible they've been used to covering up how they really feel for quite some time that when they're finally ready to spill the beans, they can't because of the habit they've taught themselves of holding back for fear of hurting the other person, for fear of the other person's reaction, etc.

I wholeheartedly agree.
Communication in the most direct form is the best way to express one's feelings.


Find a passion and pursue it.Fall in love.Dream Big.drink wine, eat good food and spend quality time with good friends.laugh everyday.tell stories. learn more. never give up. be grateful try new things be. happy. and above all, make every moment count.
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