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Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: soolee] #175263
11/07/11 03:45 PM
11/07/11 03:45 PM
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dday101798 Offline OP
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Hey Dan,

Thanks for stopping by. smile

I don't view at as "a turn for the worse". I see things right now as still succeeding as problems were identified and brought to the table before it inevitably became too late. I've seen quite a few success stories go south because folks never realized they were backsliding into what drove the M apart in the first place.

That said, fairly quiet weekend. Only issue aorse Friday night. Basic gist was again (x)W attacking solely my problems that I have already been correcting (apparently not quick enough) while I take the standpoint of our problems as a collective, mainly communication issues. What reall set it off was she released a barrage of bottled up feeling and emotions (something we both agreed nearly 2 years ago not to do, bottle up) all while not in a clear state of mind. Thus, I was not giving much credability to the rant. Again politely and collectively, 'I'm sorry, we can not have this conversation at this moment in your current state, you are not yourself and although I understand what you are trying to get across and want to get it out, now is simply not the time'.

That spawned up a bit of her "defense" that is was ok for me to do so previously and now that I am cleaning up my act, it's like an inconvenience to her that she can't do the same??? strange stuff. I simply pointed resited something I learned while going through the D crisis few years back "if you live constantly reflecting on yesterday, and don't let it go today, tomorrow is going to be another bad day".

We cleared the air later on when 'normalicy' returned.

Other than that, it was a fairly quiet weekend as said. Going to focus this week on diagnosing these disconnects in hopefuly more detail - communication breakdowns that need work, emotional needs, and the what not.

And Dan, you are abolutely correct on the financial impacts of bad habits. Saved quite a bit of a already skimpy budget this week by the large scaling back. I set my limit to 6pm Friday through 6pm Sunday and stuck to it.


I'm not a professional.... and I don't go exactly by the book.... but I did get the second chance to get things right. smile TIME.... Patience.... Self Investment.... smile
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: dday101798] #175272
11/07/11 04:00 PM
11/07/11 04:00 PM
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dday101798 Offline OP
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Oh and Dan, I haven't forgotten, we have to do a wing night my friend.


I'm not a professional.... and I don't go exactly by the book.... but I did get the second chance to get things right. smile TIME.... Patience.... Self Investment.... smile
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: dday101798] #175276
11/07/11 04:09 PM
11/07/11 04:09 PM
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LivingWell Offline
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Originally Posted By: dday101798
Again politely and collectively, 'I'm sorry, we can not have this conversation at this moment in your current state, you are not yourself and although I understand what you are trying to get across and want to get it out, now is simply not the time'.

That spawned up a bit of her "defense" that is was ok for me to do so previously and now that I am cleaning up my act, it's like an inconvenience to her that she can't do the same??? strange stuff.

I'm thinking that you might get closer to your goal if instead of using this approach, you use a boundary......similar to how you set a boundary and then enforced it the other night when she set one down in front of you.

I remember how powerful that statement sounded and how effective it seemed to be for you in accomplishing your goal.


Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: LivingWell] #175284
11/07/11 04:28 PM
11/07/11 04:28 PM
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It can be more effective to validate her feelings instead.

And if a statement must be made instead, it helps to make it without using the word "you" at all - only the pronoun "I." It can make certain things difficult (if not impossible) to say - and those are usually best left out in such situations (at least in my experience).


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: Fiddler] #175287
11/07/11 04:39 PM
11/07/11 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: fddlr3
It can be more effective to validate her feelings instead.

And if a statement must be made instead, it helps to make it without using the word "you" at all - only the pronoun "I." It can make certain things difficult (if not impossible) to say - and those are usually best left out in such situations (at least in my experience).


Oh EVER soooo true, and yes I am student of that lesson and remind her frequently not to use "you, never, always" the usual key words.

In this instant tho, I don't think applies. It's not that I was arguing with her, simply, "you are not in the right state of mind for this conversation" And I did validate by saying I understood waht she was trying to say and express, it just wasn't the time to do so.

Now, if the situation were I told her "YOU are NEVER of the right state of mind to have this conversation" then true, purely negative on my part and not constructive to the conversation.



I'm not a professional.... and I don't go exactly by the book.... but I did get the second chance to get things right. smile TIME.... Patience.... Self Investment.... smile
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: LivingWell] #175289
11/07/11 04:43 PM
11/07/11 04:43 PM
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dday101798 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: LivingWell
I'm thinking that you might get closer to your goal if instead of using this approach, you use a boundary......similar to how you set a boundary and then enforced it the other night when she set one down in front of you.


That was my intent, stating that 'yes, this conversation does in fact need to take place and I am more than than willing to listen and work with what is troubling you, however, it cannot take place effectively under these conditions'.

No?


I'm not a professional.... and I don't go exactly by the book.... but I did get the second chance to get things right. smile TIME.... Patience.... Self Investment.... smile
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: dday101798] #175294
11/07/11 04:50 PM
11/07/11 04:50 PM
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I think the way you phrased it is guaranteed to escalate the situation, because if she is in an impaired state she likely isn't going to recognize that.

Better, as the others said, to state "I don't want to have this conversation now. I will be willing to have it X." These are the kinds of things my friend is working on in Al-Anon - her BF loves to start these kinds of high-stakes arguments while he's wasted.



Current spouse: Night. D10, D9, S7

About me

You can't direct the wind, but you can adjust your sails.

http://www.divorcedmomfinances.com
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: dday101798] #175302
11/07/11 05:14 PM
11/07/11 05:14 PM
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I'm hearing blame and judgment in this version of what you said.....

Originally Posted By: dday101798
That was my intent, stating that 'yes, this conversation does in fact need to take place and I am more than than willing to listen and work with what is troubling you, however, it cannot take place effectively under these conditions'.

No?


.....although significantly less than in this version.....

Quote:
Again politely and collectively, 'I'm sorry, we can not have this conversation at this moment in your current state, you are not yourself and although I understand what you are trying to get across and want to get it out, now is simply not the time'.



The other night, I heard no blame and no judgment of her......I simply heard a man clearly stating what his own intentions for his own behavior were, and then seeing him follow through.

Quote:
Calmly and politely, 'hon, we've had this conversation, I can not have nor do I want that, too many things to get straightened out, thank you, but no thank you'.

Very powerful, imo.

Do you see the difference?

Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: LivingWell] #175314
11/07/11 05:43 PM
11/07/11 05:43 PM
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dday101798 Offline OP
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I must have blinded myself or something, I don't see it.

I was respectfuly, without blame or judgement (or so I think) preventing a situation that would involve emotional criticality and could get severely out of hand into a "stabbing match" under the conditions at that time.

That said, the first quote you pointed is just my way trying to iterrate to you guys what I was trying to convey, not what I said, which was the second quote you point.

Either way, after restating that a time or two to her, she accepted it just fine and agreed, and we did in fact have the conversation later and it was certainly less charged and focused on 'us' and not a 'me, me, me' atmosphere.


I'm not a professional.... and I don't go exactly by the book.... but I did get the second chance to get things right. smile TIME.... Patience.... Self Investment.... smile
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: dday101798] #175317
11/07/11 05:58 PM
11/07/11 05:58 PM
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LivingWell Offline
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Originally Posted By: dday101798
I was respectfuly, without blame or judgement (or so I think) preventing a situation that would involve emotional criticality and could get severely out of hand into a "stabbing match" under the conditions at that time.

I think that you could have done that without saying anything about whether you thought she was herself and without saying anything about her behavior.......by simply stating what your intentions for your own behavior were and then following through, like you did the other night.

For example, saying something like.....I will be willing to talk about these issues when both of us are sober.

No judgement, no blame......just that you won't talk under the current circumstances. If she continued, you could either say nothing back or leave the room. A boundary doesn't try to control her behavior.....it just manages your own.

Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: LivingWell] #175324
11/07/11 06:05 PM
11/07/11 06:05 PM
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Fiddler Offline
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I'd even leave out the "us" - a boundary is about "me" and "us" still includes "you."


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: LivingWell] #175329
11/07/11 06:22 PM
11/07/11 06:22 PM
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dday101798 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: LivingWell
If she continued, you could either say nothing back or leave the room.


hmmmm, have you ever dealt with an angry red head? laugh1

I see what you're trying to say. With her however, if I didn't say anything in response or left the room....that would be grounds for WWIII. She absolutely can not stand that at all.

Then, I think if I had said something along the lines of "I don't want to have this conversation right now", I'd be coming off selfish, as to only protect myself and not her as well. Kind of against my fabric of thinking (look at the whole situation as to why I'm back here: selfishness)

And I couldn't say that we should have the conversation when both of us are sober because THEN I'd would be blaming and judgemental because there was only one person in the room who wasn't.

So again, I fully understand what you're saying, but given the circumstance, I truly believe it's the best I could've done at the time. I mean, it all worked out after all and she was fine with it after standing my ground and repeating.


I'm not a professional.... and I don't go exactly by the book.... but I did get the second chance to get things right. smile TIME.... Patience.... Self Investment.... smile
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: dday101798] #175331
11/07/11 06:29 PM
11/07/11 06:29 PM
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LivingWell Offline
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Originally Posted By: dday101798
So again, I fully understand what you're saying, but given the circumstance, I truly believe it's the best I could've done at the time. I mean, it all worked out after all and she was fine with it after standing my ground and repeating.

If you're content with your method, then you're good to go. smile


Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: LivingWell] #175332
11/07/11 06:34 PM
11/07/11 06:34 PM
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dday101798 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: LivingWell
If you're content with your method, then you're good to go. smile


Thanks. Yeah, I have done some things that are highly unorthadox to certain 'teachings' found in some books and what have you. On the old site I used to be on I spent about a solid week getting my rear handed to me by a WAW for some of things I said and did to my (x)W when she first found my thread. I could only reply "I know this woman and what she wants to see out of me to want to come back" and in the end, I was right and it all worked out in the method of my madness.


I'm not a professional.... and I don't go exactly by the book.... but I did get the second chance to get things right. smile TIME.... Patience.... Self Investment.... smile
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: dday101798] #175333
11/07/11 06:41 PM
11/07/11 06:41 PM
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I get it, dday......there were some *unorthodox* things that I did in my sitch, too.

Having a good understanding of why certain things were recommended helped me to apply the logic and reasoning even if the actual actions were much different than usual.

Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: LivingWell] #175339
11/07/11 07:21 PM
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dday101798 Offline OP
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Almost completely forgot to mention.....

Whoah'ing up on things has really helped establish a line of communication with respect from my 13yr old son, I mean night and day change. My 14yr old, well not so much yet. He's developmentaly challenged and we consistatnly have issues with him in cycles and we're long over due, and he's a brewing.

Little Mr. 8mo old, well, he's our lil buddy and can wash all the problems of the day away wit his simple innocent little smile.

Anyway, when all simmered down with (x)W, we're on the same page of getting the heck out of dodge on our own after the holiday season, her busiest time at work. That's going to be a challenge as she'll be working overnights and we'll see each other for about 1 1/2 hours each morning as I have my coffee getting ready for work. I'm really hoping the proposed changes to the FICO scoring system come through, they would help me emensely secure a mortgage loan. Hopefuly my investments haven't totaly tanked by that time as well. frown

Everybody just keeps telling us the same thing that we already know, getting out, free of any family tie downs is going to feel soooo good and life will be soooo much better.


I'm not a professional.... and I don't go exactly by the book.... but I did get the second chance to get things right. smile TIME.... Patience.... Self Investment.... smile
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: dday101798] #175353
11/07/11 08:50 PM
11/07/11 08:50 PM
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LivingWell Offline
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Originally Posted By: dday101798
Whoah'ing up on things has really helped establish a line of communication with respect from my 13yr old son, I mean night and day change.

This sounds very promising.....for both of you. smile

The changes that you are making and the way that you are conducting yourself could result in a new respect from your inlaws, too. As much as your current living situation must suck, I see opportunity that you wouldn't otherwise have, too. smile


Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: dday101798] #175362
11/07/11 09:09 PM
11/07/11 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: dday101798
Oh and Dan, I haven't forgotten, we have to do a wing night my friend.


I'm available most Monday and Tuesday nights and every other weekend! Next weekend I have the kids.

Any time you are available, let me know.


Me45 - S13, D11
Disconnected 7/1/12

I'm a brand new sky to hang the stars upon tonight......
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: Danf] #175822
11/09/11 03:37 AM
11/09/11 03:37 AM
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dday, there is a book The Dilemma of the Alcoholic Marriage that helped me a ton trying to live with the active illness. The main thing is to focus on being courteous to one another, no easy feat, but it gets easier. I'm glad things are going better with your kids.

I found an excerpt online, here's something that helped me at the time.

Quote:
After working hard all day, I would come home and find my wife too drunk to prepare dinner for my children and me. During a period when my wife wasnt drinking, I sat down and talked with her as calmly and reasonably as I could. I told her that she was the only one who could do anything about her drinking, but that I could take certain steps to see that her drinking would not affect me and our children as far as meals were concerned. I arranged with a neigh- bor to come in and cook the dinner. This went on for three weeks, then my wife asked for another chance. Although she still gets drunk nearly every night, now she at least waits until after she has cooked dinner. I think this is a case of changing the things we can.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Some Sequels Should Not Be Made [Re: NewEveryDay] #176277
11/10/11 07:11 PM
11/10/11 07:11 PM
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dday101798 Offline OP
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Thanks for stopping by 'new'.

Originally Posted By: NewEveryDay
The main thing is to focus on being courteous to one another, no easy feat, but it gets easier.


You are absolutely correct there.

Your excerpt you posted was very moving. Neither of us are anywhere near that bad where we can't carry out everyday functions, wow, that's bad. Just more or less had too much zoning out eachother into our own 'coping mechanisms'.

Still chuggen (no pun intended) along otherwise. smile

Oh, and we had a GREAT night Teusday.



I'm not a professional.... and I don't go exactly by the book.... but I did get the second chance to get things right. smile TIME.... Patience.... Self Investment.... smile
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