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Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: *~aeri~*] #204996
02/06/12 07:58 PM
02/06/12 07:58 PM
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herfuturesbright Offline
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Quote:
Had the woman known her value without having it all tied up in what her H thinks of her, he wouldn't have been able to tear her down.


I am not sure I can agree with this. No matter how self-aware and self-confident I am, I don't think I could remain unaffected if someone I loved continually criticized, belittled, or - just as damaging in some ways - completely ignored me. What I would hope is that I would be self-aware enough to KNOW I was not being treated in a way that was loving and that I wouldn't stick around for the indefinitely.

Maybe I am just to "justice-oriented," but I think blaming myself when someone is a jerk lets them off the hook too much smile

Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: *~aeri~*] #205008
02/06/12 08:16 PM
02/06/12 08:16 PM
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Chani Offline
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Originally Posted By: *~aeri~*

The point is--if you get all mushy over the fact that your H has complimented you or paid 8 cows for you, you have poor self-esteem to begin with!


That's a pretty broad statement and it doesn't apply to me. I love it when my husband compliments me, in public or private. Words of Affirmation are my highest Love Language. I have great self-esteem too. lol

I've noticed people in happy marriages tend to compliment spouses in public. I'm sure they do it private too. Complimenting in public is a way of drawing a boundary, perhaps done unconsciously, to let others know this is a strong relationship, things are good here...this relationship isn't the weak gazelle in the savannah (to mix metaphors).

Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: herfuturesbright] #205016
02/06/12 08:26 PM
02/06/12 08:26 PM
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*~aeri~* Offline
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Quote:
That's a pretty broad statement and it doesn't apply to me. I love it when my husband compliments me, in public or private. Words of Affirmation are my highest Love Language. I have great self-esteem too. lol


Did you share in this post before now? I was referring to those who have, so although it may have seemed quite "broad" to you, in reality it only referred to those who were involved in the discussion.

Quote:
I've noticed people in happy marriages tend to compliment spouses in public.


I've noticed the opposite--the couples I know that have been to therapy and are on the brink of divorce are usually the ones who develop this type of habit. Much of the time it sounds very disingenuous to me.

Quote:
Complimenting in public is a way of drawing a boundary, perhaps done unconsciously, to let others know this is a strong relationship, things are good here...this relationship isn't the weak gazelle in the savannah (to mix metaphors).


There's nothing WRONG with public compliments--don't misunderstand me. My argument stemed from someone mentioning that public compliments actually OUTWEIGH private ones. To me, that seems odd.

Why would a person need to show others that their relationship is strong? I don't see the benefit?

Quote:
Maybe I am just to "justice-oriented," but I think blaming myself when someone is a jerk lets them off the hook too much


There's no justification for a man being a jerk. My point is whether your H compliments you in public or pays 8 cows for you, you shouldn't require THAT behaviour to have a good self esteem and self-worth.


Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: *~aeri~*] #205375
02/07/12 06:38 PM
02/07/12 06:38 PM
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Aeri, my expereince of those going for divorce are the opposite...they are the ones who don't care enough to compliment each other.

I have to be perfectly honest and say I don't understand your point of view.

It feels good to be recognised by other people whether in the home or at work. I don't necessarily think that it means people have low self worth because they enjoy receiving compliments...


When I pay compliments to my husband I don't do it because I pity his low self esteem, I do it because I want to show my appreciation.

To know that the person you love values you as you do yourself is heartwarming.

There was me thinking I was pretty sure of myself and valued myself realistically and like myself, now it seems that you are saying that becuase I appreciate the tale I don't have any self worth????

Please don't take offence if I have misunderstood.


Married 22years (this year) ~13y since dday(?)
DD17 DS14
Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: Squeaky Tree] #205382
02/07/12 06:48 PM
02/07/12 06:48 PM
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people are different. And I also think love languages factor into it. Words of Affirmation is a high thing for me. Gifts...well, I think I scored a zero. So if someone I care about expresses appreciation and affirmation toward me, it makes me feel good, and I feel that appreciation back. When someone gets me a gift, I do appreciate their thoughtfulness, but it isn't a big warm fuzzy. Now, for my brother, it is. Even if it is just a small something, he LOVES presents.

When I would do things for H or whatever, and he never said a word, I didn't begin to think I was terrible necessarily. But I did wonder why he didn't appreciate it. He was more of a "as long as I'm not complaining you know I'm happy" kind of guy.

Some people just get their emotional "batteries" charged through encouragement. I don;t think that means they must not like themselves. I think it means they just have that kind of personality. On the other hand, some people really respond to what I call the "Bella Caroli" method. They want the coach who yells, the boos who pushes, the teacher who throws the paper at them and says "write it again!" I have a friend who is like that. She has no use for all that "fluffy stuff." BUT she has never made me feel less because I DO appreciate the fluffy stuff.

Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: herfuturesbright] #205386
02/07/12 06:59 PM
02/07/12 06:59 PM
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My husband isn't big on the praise, and very similar to what HRF described. When he does say things, like 'hey, sexy' or 'That chicken is good', I know it's BIG for him. I get a charge out of it when he does say something. I get a charge from the attention. The 8 cows, to me, mean attention...a compliment.

I have met people who don't take compliments well...it makes them uncomfortable. It's ok to be either way. My husband likes praise and compliments. I give them often. He can live without them, but he receives them well. I receive them well. There was a time when I did not INWARDLY receive them well, because I didn't FEEL as secure as I do now.

Some people don't seem to need anything from other people...some do, some need a little, some need a lot. I'm not judging them. Perhaps they all just need someone to turn the mirror on them so they can see their worth as it is seen by others. I'm aware of my worth...still, I like to hear compliments. Doesn't mean anything except I like it. Meh, that's just me.

Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: *~aeri~*] #205387
02/07/12 06:59 PM
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Chani Offline
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Originally Posted By: *~aeri~*
Quote:
That's a pretty broad statement and it doesn't apply to me. I love it when my husband compliments me, in public or private. Words of Affirmation are my highest Love Language. I have great self-esteem too. lol


Did you share in this post before now? I was referring to those who have, so although it may have seemed quite "broad" to you, in reality it only referred to those who were involved in the discussion.

Quote:
I've noticed people in happy marriages tend to compliment spouses in public.


I've noticed the opposite--the couples I know that have been to therapy and are on the brink of divorce are usually the ones who develop this type of habit. Much of the time it sounds very disingenuous to me.

Quote:
Complimenting in public is a way of drawing a boundary, perhaps done unconsciously, to let others know this is a strong relationship, things are good here...this relationship isn't the weak gazelle in the savannah (to mix metaphors).


There's nothing WRONG with public compliments--don't misunderstand me. My argument stemed from someone mentioning that public compliments actually OUTWEIGH private ones. To me, that seems odd.

Why would a person need to show others that their relationship is strong? I don't see the benefit?



This is a public board and I assume that I'm free to comment wherever I wish so long as I abide by the TOS. smile

Your post, that I quoted in my earlier post, didn't indicate it was limited to any particular poster in this thread. If that was your intention, your post didn't make it clear. You made what I still feel is a very broad statement. I was offering my thoughts as to why a woman would like it when a husband compliments her in public.

Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: Chani] #205388
02/07/12 07:05 PM
02/07/12 07:05 PM
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In my limited experience, those heading toward divorce (my mother, myself, my sister, uncle, aunt, some friends)...don't talk to each other much at all, so complimenting one another didn't happen, much less gift exchange. Many are so withdrawn at that point.

My self worth has little to do with how much I enjoy receiving compliments or gifts or praise. I like it. I like to value others openly also with praise and gifts. I don't do it all of the time, but it's important to me to show others how much I value them and their existence in my life. That could be thru talk, through touch, through gifts or through giving my time. It depends on who the receiver is. It's all a gift and all good, IMO.

Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: Chani] #205404
02/07/12 08:27 PM
02/07/12 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Aeri, my expereince of those going for divorce are the opposite...they are the ones who don't care enough to compliment each other.

We've clearly have had different experiences.

I have to be perfectly honest and say I don't understand your point of view.

I'd say about 75% of the people that I meet at MA don't share my views. I'm not sure WHY I'm different, but I definitely feel different.

Sharing my thoughts helps me to understand how others think and that's a good thing.


It feels good to be recognised by other people whether in the home or at work. I don't necessarily think that it means people have low self worth because they enjoy receiving compliments...

Don't misunderstand me--I hope it didn't seem that I was saying those who enjoy compliments have low self worth! What I mean is that women should have value in their own minds, regardless of compliments and regardless of having been bartered for 8 cows.

When I pay compliments to my husband I don't do it because I pity his low self esteem, I do it because I want to show my appreciation.

I compliment my H because I know it's good for the soul, but that's not to say that my H wouldn't know his own value if I didn't compliment him.

To know that the person you love values you as you do yourself is heartwarming.

Of course! I doubt anyone would dispute that.

There was me thinking I was pretty sure of myself and valued myself realistically and like myself, now it seems that you are saying that becuase I appreciate the tale I don't have any self worth????

No-you've misunderstood me. You should value yourself as a human being REGARDLESS of how often your H compliments you in front of his buddies or in private. My message is that a woman's value need NOT be dictated by her H. The girl in the story seemed to have no value to herself UNTIL her H shelled out the 8 cows--that's my problem. I dislike that message!

Please don't take offence if I have misunderstood.

I never take offense---especially not about a misunderstanding!


Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: Chani] #205405
02/07/12 08:30 PM
02/07/12 08:30 PM
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Quote:
This is a public board and I assume that I'm free to comment wherever I wish so long as I abide by the TOS.

That is correct--I hope I didn't make you feel as if you aren't free to comment. I don't have the authority to do that.

Your post, that I quoted in my earlier post, didn't indicate it was limited to any particular poster in this thread. If that was your intention, your post didn't make it clear. You made what I still feel is a very broad statement. I was offering my thoughts as to why a woman would like it when a husband compliments her in public.

The statement was referring to the people who I was discussing in the thread, so it wasn't so broad. I can imagine how you could have made that mistake though.



Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: herfuturesbright] #205406
02/07/12 08:40 PM
02/07/12 08:40 PM
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Quote:
people are different. And I also think love languages factor into it. Words of Affirmation is a high thing for me. Gifts...well, I think I scored a zero. So if someone I care about expresses appreciation and affirmation toward me, it makes me feel good, and I feel that appreciation back. When someone gets me a gift, I do appreciate their thoughtfulness, but it isn't a big warm fuzzy. Now, for my brother, it is. Even if it is just a small something, he LOVES presents.


True, HERF but I see this a bit differently.

A person with a love language that is "Words of Affirmation" might be less confident. Just because a book has identified a flaw that could harm a marriage if not rectified, doesn't mean that it's any less of a flaw.





Last edited by *~aeri~*; 02/07/12 08:40 PM.

Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: *~aeri~*] #205453
02/07/12 11:10 PM
02/07/12 11:10 PM
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herfuturesbright Offline
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Well, I enjoy being flawed. I know who I am and that I have great value. And it doesn't bother me a bit that I enjoy affirmation. I would not, for example, pronounce someone who is not naturally empathetic or tactful as flawed. I would just assume that was the bent of their personality and not assign it a greater or lesser value than mine.

Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: herfuturesbright] #205476
02/08/12 12:13 AM
02/08/12 12:13 AM
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Aeri, part of your post was in reply to my post, so I assume I am included in those "involved in the discussion." As such, I do not identify with your statement:

Originally Posted By: aeri
The point is--if you get all mushy over the fact that your H has complimented you or paid 8 cows for you, you have poor self-esteem to begin with!


That statement does not apply to me, either. I'm not sure why there would be a difference between folks who have already posted on this thread vs. those who have not.

It would appear that Words of Affirmation is not one of your Love Languages. It might be that it is so low on your list that it actually induces a negative reaction in you. That is not true for everyone. That doesn't make those who appreciate Words of Affirmation "wrong" or less worthy or weak.

Originally Posted By: aeri
There's nothing WRONG with public compliments--don't misunderstand me. My argument stemed from someone mentioning that public compliments actually OUTWEIGH private ones. To me, that seems odd.

Why would a person need to show others that their relationship is strong? I don't see the benefit?


I never gave an example of a husband publicly saying that his relationship with his wife is strong. One of the examples I gave was complimenting her cooking. You may not understand my position, but I don't understand how a guy saying as he sits down to dinner "This looks good!" would outweigh him going to work the next day telling his buddies that his wife made an awesome lasagna the night before.

It's ok if we have different viewpoints and different Love Languages.


42.
Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: herfuturesbright] #205479
02/08/12 12:22 AM
02/08/12 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Well, I enjoy being flawed. I know who I am and that I have great value. And it doesn't bother me a bit that I enjoy affirmation.


Well, that's within your right. It's not up to me to tell others how they should feel about themselves.

I feel that you're taking this personally. We're just having a discussion.

All the love languages can be seen as flaws when taken to the extreme. If a woman with a "gift" love language expects 10 carat diamonds, a world cruise and designer bags as her gifts and her H isn't in the financial position to supply them, I'd say she's flawed.

On a small scale (flowers, etc.) I think we can all agree that "gifts" arent' a big deal.

I think the need for affirmation can definitely be taken to the extreme and can be harmful to the woman involved.

HERF, consider this: If your daughter told you that she needs affirmation from her boyfriend frequently or she feels unloved, would you tell her that her love language is "affirmation" and suggest that her boyfriend read the book OR would you remind her that compliments and affirmation from her boyfriend are a wonderful adjunct to the great person that she already is? Something tells me that you'd definitely remind your daughter that she has great value, regardless of what her man thought of her.

Compliments are the icing on the cake--I love compliments from my H...I just don't NEED them. That's the point I'm making.

Quote:
I would not, for example, pronounce someone who is not naturally empathetic or tactful as flawed. I would just assume that was the bent of their personality and not assign it a greater or lesser value than mine.


You might do this if it was the subject of the discussion at hand.


Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: *~aeri~*] #205509
02/08/12 01:24 AM
02/08/12 01:24 AM
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Aeri, I love how you brought this back out of the ditch!

Quote:
The girl in the story seemed to have no value to herself UNTIL her H shelled out the 8 cows--that's my problem. I dislike that message!


But better late than never, right? I think it's cool that this guy loved this girl, and somehow hit the nail on the head how to reach her in a way that resonated as true for her. *She* realized she *was* an 8 cow wife, and made new choices accordingly. We all know folks who are treasured but don't in turn treasure or challenge themselves. But the way this woman carried herself, she did treasure herself now.

ETA: We've all heard stories of a troubled kid who had a teacher who believed in him or her, like the movie Stand and Deliver. In a story like that, is it clearer why something like this, taking an interest in someone others don't value, and then that person rising to the challenge, is heartwarming?

Last edited by NewEveryDay; 02/08/12 01:32 AM. Reason: still talking :)

"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: NewEveryDay] #205517
02/08/12 01:53 AM
02/08/12 01:53 AM
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herfuturesbright Offline
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I want my Dd to have self-confidence and self-awareness. And I would have concerns if a boyfriend was the source of her self-esteem. I certainly would not buy him a love language book.

And no, I would not consider myself above someone who is different from me, no matter the conversation. Because it would be arrogant and annoying. I'm nice. I like being nice.


Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: Jayne241] #205529
02/08/12 02:25 AM
02/08/12 02:25 AM
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*~aeri~* Offline
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Quote:
Aeri, I love how you brought this back out of the ditch!


When was it in the ditch?

Quote:
I think it's cool that this guy loved this girl, and somehow hit the nail on the head how to reach her in a way that resonated as true for her. *She* realized she *was* an 8 cow wife, and made new choices accordingly. We all know folks who are treasured but don't in turn treasure or challenge themselves. But the way this woman carried herself, she did treasure herself now.


I think it's fabulous that by realizing that she was worth 8 cows to her H, she suddenly felt treasured. For the sheer FEELING, of course I can't argue with the fact that she felt BETTER about herself.

My issue is the MESSAGE!

What is the moral of the story? If someone THINKS your worth something, you are. I'm really opposed to that message. Is the opposite true? If someone thinks you're worth crap, you probably are??

Quote:
ETA: We've all heard stories of a troubled kid who had a teacher who believed in him or her, like the movie Stand and Deliver. In a story like that, is it clearer why something like this, taking an interest in someone others don't value, and then that person rising to the challenge, is heartwarming?


When it's the story of a child, it *IS* heartwarming for me. A child is a blank canvas and if the child doesn't have parents to teach him/her confidence and self-worth, then that job falls upon a great teacher. I don't find it as heartwarming when it's the story of a grown woman who feels vindicated and validated because her H was cunning enough to trade her for 8 cows.

Quote:
That statement does not apply to me, either. I'm not sure why there would be a difference between folks who have already posted on this thread vs. those who have not.


I don't consider it a "broad" statement unless it is "broadcast" to more than just the few people who have commented on this thread.

Quote:
It might be that it is so low on your list that it actually induces a negative reaction in you.


I have to disagree with you here.

More than once I've said that I have no issue with being paid a compliment. Earlier on in the thread, I said that compliments made by my H in private mean far more to me than compliments made in public. I consider compliments rather intimate. I don't like to have my H share his feelings about me with others.

I don't have a negative reaction. My initial argument was directed at the story. How sad is it to be happy about being traded for 8 cows...further to that, how much worse is it to know that that was the BEST way for your H to boost your self esteem? If we were to parallel this story to something in our own lives, something that is applicable to OUR culture, what would it be?

"My H bought me a 25 room mansion, even though my parents felt that I was ugly and may not amount to much. In reality, I'm not really WORTH it, but my H felt that if I lived in a mansion, I might consider myself a trophy wife. Well, gosh darnit, aren't I the lady? The neighbours envy me now since my H spent such a sum of money to have me".

Not quite the same heartwarming story now, is it?

Quote:
That doesn't make those who appreciate Words of Affirmation "wrong" or less worthy or weak.


Of course it doesn't. You knew that I didn't say that, right?

Quote:
I never gave an example of a husband publicly saying that his relationship with his wife is strong. One of the examples I gave was complimenting her cooking. You may not understand my position, but I don't understand how a guy saying as he sits down to dinner "This looks good!" would outweigh him going to work the next day telling his buddies that his wife made an awesome lasagna the night before.


Actually, my response was to something LilDoggie said about her Husband. She said that if her H compliments in public it gives her a bigger rush.


Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: herfuturesbright] #205531
02/08/12 02:28 AM
02/08/12 02:28 AM
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*~aeri~* Offline
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I want my Dd to have self-confidence and self-awareness. And I would have concerns if a boyfriend was the source of her self-esteem. I certainly would not buy him a love language book.


You agree with me, then.

Self confidence should come from within. That's exactly what you want for your daughter, so why not for you?

Quote:
And no, I would not consider myself above someone who is different from me, no matter the conversation. Because it would be arrogant and annoying. I'm nice. I like being nice.


I'm not sure what you're referring to.

I think you're nice, too.


Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: *~aeri~*] #205534
02/08/12 02:35 AM
02/08/12 02:35 AM
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I talk a lot smile

Last edited by herfuturesbright; 02/08/12 02:46 AM. Reason: moved my rambling to my own thread
Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: herfuturesbright] #205552
02/08/12 02:59 AM
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For me....it is more about my h knowing me and wanting to meet the needs of the woman he committed to love. Just like I was to meet his. When I start saying "well this need makes no sense to me, or is unimportant to me, so it's a flaw to have this need....." there is a problem. In an oversimplified way, that was a big part of the breakdown of our M. He saw my needs as flaws, as annoyances. And no matter how "I am woman hear me roar" one tries to be....for me, years and years of that DOES have an affect. And to pile the fact that I was weak for caring on top of it....


I think you're paralleling my thoughts with your own situation and the two don't really match. I think you have a tremendous amount of self worth because you removed yourself from a situation that wasn't good for you emotionally. You did that even though (I think) there were many emotional obstacles for you. It was that confidence that allowed you to move forward, so I'm not sure why you're taking my words and attributing them to something negative.

Your H was WRONG. You KNEW you were worth more than the scraps he was throwing you (unlike the lady in the story that was quite happy with her H showing the townspeople that he paid 8 cows for her). I'm not trying to be "I am woman, hear me roar". This isn't about being a woman, I'd say the SAME THING to a man. I love my H for his confidence. He didn't need a wife to prove to himself that he was worthy. He knew he was and I am the beneficiary of that mindset.





Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: *~aeri~*] #205553
02/08/12 03:02 AM
02/08/12 03:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
Member
herfuturesbright  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
Thank you aeri. I know that I was not wrong, and neither were my needs. But it does feel good to hear it from a person who is always honest. smile

Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: herfuturesbright] #205819
02/08/12 07:01 PM
02/08/12 07:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,918
Canada
*
*~aeri~* Offline
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*~aeri~*  Offline
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*
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,918
Canada
Quote:
Thank you aeri. I know that I was not wrong, and neither were my needs.


Of course not, HERF.

My only intention is to share MY feelings. I'm not trying to beat anyone over the head.


Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: *~aeri~*] #206658
02/11/12 08:13 PM
02/11/12 08:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,409
for to fade Offline
Member
for to fade  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,409
I like this story

too bad there isn't a bumper sticker that says

i wanna be an 8 cow wife

or

8 cow wife wanna be

Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: ] #206759
02/12/12 02:48 AM
02/12/12 02:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Lil Offline OP

Member
Lil  Offline OP

Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Late to return..

Well the very first thing I want to say is:

Its a different culture. I do not now or ever want my DH to determine my value by a monetary, or possession item. However I can see that within a culture were dowry is everything, then for a H to pay over and above the going rate for his wife to be, so she can see the esteem he holds her in, is a grand gesture of romance surpassing none( as determined by that particular culture) Any attempts to compare how this culture shows value and honour to members of it's society, to another societ,y is going to suffer from bias, prejudice, and a lack of understanding of the finer points. Unless you have lived equally in 2 different cultures, you cannot hope to begin to fully understand all the little nuances.

Now as far as why I like the 8 cow wife and what this story means to me, and WHY it means so much to me...

3 years and 48 weeks ago I found out my H was having an affair. In the months that followed he demonised me to my face, to family and to friends. In private he would say nice-ish things, usually to ensure I would continue to allow him to cake eat.

Words of affirmation/Admiration are pretty high up LL/En's for me. They were before the A, they are post A. I thrive on being praised up. It makes me happy. I get a real kick out of it, especially when he does it in public, to, or around, people I know he ran me down to before

Yeah, I shouldnt NEED this, you know what, I am not healed yet, so I do. I love it. I freaking get a major kick out of it. Its even better when I hear he did it and I wasnt even around. Last week he was in town buying a pie. The assistant warned him they were hot. He replied "I'm used to handling hot things, you should see my wife".

:valentine: :valentine: :valentine:

Gifts, schmiffs, I want praise. Specific and targeted to my desires, my cultural POV as you were.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: The Original 8 Cow Wife [Re: Lil] #206782
02/12/12 06:17 AM
02/12/12 06:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,007
The Farm
Jayne241 Offline
Member
Jayne241  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,007
The Farm
smile There's nothing wrong with having praise be one of your main LLs. Sure, all of us can survive without having our LLs / ENs met, but ain't life so much grander with it?

So, lil, since YOU were the one with the cows... is Flick an 8 cow husband? wink


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