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Do people who have affairs end up together? #249294
07/26/12 04:03 AM
07/26/12 04:03 AM
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The Dark Side of the Moon
AntigoneRisen Offline OP
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This is a very common question, and those asking it often type it into a search engine. Therefore, I'd like to have our members weigh in on the answer. Let's help those who have this question.

My answer:

Sometimes they do, but the number of people in affairs that end up with their affair partner is a statistical minority.

According to a recent Psychology Today article:

Quote:
Fewer than 25 percent of cheaters leave a marriage for an affair partner, and those relationships are statistically extremely unlikely to endure.


Of those spouses that leave, many return, and very few affairs lead to marriage.

Comments?


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: AntigoneRisen] #249307
07/26/12 05:13 AM
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I think it's a very hard question to answer. One can find any statistic to support a cause or theory if they look hard enough. If I went by statistics in my life, as in people I personally know in real life who had affairs, the answer would be 100% end up together. One reason being is an affairing spouse no longer has value on the "open market" and is sort of stuck with the low caliber partner.

The reality is even if the affair partners don't end up together for life they do end up together long enough to destroy a marriage and family. The idea of two affair partners breaking up a few years down the line is hardly soothing to the betrayed and the family they impacted so much. It's hard to digest that lives have been forever changed for a 24 month liaison.

I guess for me it's hard to believe statistics like this. Based on this forum (and others like it) along with my in person divorce support group, my own (new defunct) marriage and the people I knew before any of this happened to me the stats just aren't accurate. Staying together doesn't mean marriage. It could mean dating or living together or any contact at all. And even if the affair partners do part ways it's unlikely a rebuilding of the marriage would take place after a few years have passed. So marriage or not the destruction is immense and should not be discounted.

I can say this and I do find it so alarming... the people I do know who had marriages begin as affairs are not remorseful at all. The most I have ever heard them admit is "It may have been wrong but the heart wants but the heart wants" or something along those lines. And these are marriages that are 8, 10, 18 years long. Some gave up full custody of their children, some lost stepchildren forever, some lost every dime they had worked decades to make and none of them are sorry at all. And many of them left semi or long term marriages.

So "lasting forever" might not be the big question. The more appropriate and important question is most likely if it will last long enough to permanently sever a marriage and family. And most do.




Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: CityGirl] #249316
07/26/12 06:35 AM
07/26/12 06:35 AM
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Lil Offline

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Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: CityGirl] #249317
07/26/12 06:57 AM
07/26/12 06:57 AM
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I don't reckon my real-life sample is any larger than CG's, but it didn't behave exactly like hers. Of course it will be a mixed bag when we examine our individual small samples.

I have a distressing number of friends, acquaintences, coworkers (and one cousin) who divorced because of infidelity, but only one long-term relationship came out of any of those affairs. (That affairing couple has been married 8 years, and it ain't been a pretty ride--he's an alcoholic and has cheated on her too).

A couple of the WH's in my sample tried to get back with their BWs after their affairs imploded, but they were rebuffed. Those men went on to marry other women; their ex-wives remain happily unmarried to this day. Four of them are in long-term relationships but don't want to marry.

In only three cases (all male coworkers) did the couple stay married despite rampant infidelity. One involved a VLT affair; another, serial cheating with practically every woman in the office; and the third, an icky Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky kind of thing. (At least two of those three BW's were aware of the infidelity but turned the other cheek for reasons I never learned.)

Quote:
So "lasting forever" might not be the big question. The more appropriate and important question is most likely if it will last long enough to permanently sever a marriage and family. And most do.


This is the salient point, I think. From what I've seen, regardless of whether the affair partners marry or stay together, the harm they do to their spouses and marriages more often than not results in divorce and broken families.

The only exceptions to divorce after infidelity I've witnessed are folks I've met on marriage boards--and then only when both spouses committed to working a program of some sort. It appears to me a satisfying recovery requires it.

Without remorse on the part of the WS and guidance for both WS and BA, I think infidelity destroys the chance for a couple to rebuild a marriage they both want to be in.

Here's an article that points the way for the partner who cheated who doesn't want to throw his/her marriage away, by a counselor who happens to be registered here on MA, Danine Manette: Rebuild Your Spouse's Trust

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: AntigoneRisen] #249325
07/26/12 08:29 AM
07/26/12 08:29 AM
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Orchid2 Offline
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Question: Do people who have affairs end up together?

That's an open ended question. At some point they do end up together. However, that is not what starts the damage to the family. It is the desire to be together which can lead to the plotting and executing of the A scheme.

Now the question can be end up together doing........

If the assumption is marriage....some do but even the WS and OP knows the A is based on lies and greed. At some point one of them will not want to become the victim.

What is true is that the WS and OP are toxic..... to each other and everyone around them. eek

Orchid

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Orchid2] #249356
07/26/12 02:57 PM
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That question is a good one.

I woke this morning thinking about fiction books and movies about a person who has affairs and how it usually goes that they are on some sort of "adventure" or "finding themselves" and the wife usually the wife becomes this ghost person, they didn't matter.

Thinking about this I have been on the sidelines as a granddaughter, daughter, sister, friend watching others in affairs and having affairs happen to them.

Not one ended in a long term relationship.

All caused fracture, emotional, financial distress that actually has lasting impact on grandchildren of affairing people.

I will do a light list.

My greatgrandfather, and both grandfathers all had affairs, left all grandmothers, who then rocked it in terms of plan b plan f u. Two of the grandfathers had actually bought engagement rings for the OW. As far as I knew growing up, these grandparents were in strong marraige, and laughingly I used them as models of marriage.

My dad, walked out on my mom for OW. He and OW marriade for 3 years, he cheated on her with a woman 2 years older than me and had my sm served to her huge surprise. He never married this one but lived with her 4 years, then she cheated on him, he went on to have about 5 other relationships like this, all younger, all taking his money. He always told me how sorry he was for doing what he did to my mom. For 27 years he kept trying to get my sm back, she lived with a man never married him and was a total B.

Friends, several, one in particular he cheated on his wife they had 4 children, for years he would cheat. She divorced him.

Another friend, wh cheated on her left her, as she got strong he would break into her apt and once tried to rape her.

I really feel there is something wrong with infidelity, to cheat on probably the most stable relationship a person will ever have besides maybe their children. There is an issue with how a person has thought process to be able to walk away, cheat, to do all of this. It is a very selfish thing to do, it is all about them. They aren't lying when they say "it's me" let them own that, it truly is them.

Infidelity is looked at as common it is no big deal, that a true spouse just has a problem if they don't see that the affairing person is just trying to follow their heart. It just is amazing the level of crulity.

Since my parents had their divorce and my dad went on for his life adventure in this, I have always been repelled at those who cheat. And now that it has happened in my own marriage, I find it extremely irritating as I was so careful to do my best in our marriage as I did not want this to happen. And I married a complete liar.

I will go on to say in the question do people who have affairs end up together,

end up with what, what kind of people are together, in the mindset, what is really left together?

lies, garbage

I don't care where they end up

Also when a true partner is cheated on and they want the affairing partner to come home, you have to ask

what or who do you want to come home, what is coming home

Last edited by Tinkerbell; 07/26/12 03:09 PM.
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: ] #250351
08/04/12 04:56 AM
08/04/12 04:56 AM
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My ex and his gf have been together for over 5 years. We've been dirvorced 2.5, so do that math. wink

Last August, she moved up here from her town 2.5 hrs away where we used to live when the A started. Brought her son and left behind all family, friends, support, etc to come live near my ex. Her son sees his dad one or two weekends a month. She and ex are basically inseperable, as she didn't move here until he hired her to work for him (they were coworkers back in KC when it all started).

My aunt was the first relative I had who got divorced. Her ex cheated on her. That was 1995. My uncle and his new wife are still together 17 yrs later.

A friend of mine from school had her parents divorce when we were kids after her dad cheated. They are still together 25 years later.

It's hard to say. I probably know more who stay together bc those are the ones I hear about. When people have brief affairs, often the betrayed spouse never tells anyone, esp if they reconcile, so who knows? I know with my ex the first time he cheated on me it lasted 2 months and the only ones who knew were one of my sisters and one of his. Our parents didn't even know. And would never have known except it came out when I busted him cheating again in 2007.


Me: 36

ex: 37

Together 18 years, married 12.5

Kids: S 9, D 5

Divorced: Feb 2010

Moving on and embracing my future!
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: BBJTeachRun] #250363
08/04/12 12:03 PM
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The WS and OP can legitimize their R but most still live in fear. Why? Because their R is based on greed and distrust.

So if that is how some choose to live out there lives, there will always be such ones. Let's chalk it up to being stupid and stubborn.

Take a look at an old stupid and stubborn one..... my own father.... after killing my mom, abandoning and disowning his family, he runs to marry the OW (after promising her all his possessions). He will probably stay that way until he dies. frown Sad but all too true. frown Is their M a good one? Well for those that are naive, I have heard they look happy. But for those who hear the OW when she talks, I have heard she is finally expressing her misery. Seems the old man she thought would give her status and was a 'good catch' is really an old grumpy, greedy man who is trying to keep her away from her own family. Ha...... see what comes from all their scheming?

So the stats even that lean in favor of the A, don't really work. Their quality of life is low and they like it like that.

Orchid

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Orchid2] #250390
08/04/12 06:13 PM
08/04/12 06:13 PM
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I have seen both cases
In some cases that i have seen in my circle of friends they did end up together

The situation to my opinion is related to personalities involved, if the A parties are of the non serial cheaters type, it is more likely that they will end up together for the long run and even marry, not so in the case that either one is a serial cheater and will continue to exhibit selfishness and cheat trough many of their relationships

Mike



Me: 45
W: 45
DD:21
DS:15

M for 22 Years (together 25 Years)
Had a life altering experience and we are
Working hard to try and save our marriage
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Mike_Eleven] #250415
08/04/12 09:09 PM
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Lil Offline

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DH's mother had an affair, and married. It lasted about 10 years. She told me once it had lasted that long because she had 2 small kids and no real way of supporting them the way she wanted. However, I think it isnt what you'd call a success. It didnt last forever.

Then she had an affair on her affair partner turned 2nd husband. This marriage is about 25 years along now. H#3 said to me once he did nothing wrong - I gather he had separated, but not divorced his W, who has been in a lesbian relationship since the D. DH's mother seems happy enough, although my observations is there is a very skewered power balance in the marriage. I know she dislikes the affair component of it all because almost every time some one does something a bit immoral - like DD getting pregnant at 16 - she says to me "I might have had an affair but at least I..." mad

ETA: Do affairs that end in marriage last? Statistically its doesnt look good. Most likely because the baggage from the first failed relationship isnt adequately resolved the next time around.

Last edited by Lil; 11/24/12 02:43 AM. Reason: eta

AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #250432
08/04/12 11:40 PM
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mad hiss boo

A better qustion could be 'do people who have affairs to realize how crappy they are'

Last edited by Tinkerbell; 08/04/12 11:41 PM.
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: ] #250464
08/05/12 04:06 AM
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I've seen the statistics that suggest couples that started as affairs making it long term are rare, and they seem to be consistent enough that I'm willing to accept their accuracy.

But at the end of the day, if we accept the premise that people are not defined by affairs and that people can change, grow, and learn -- that they can, in fact, learn from mistakes and use those mistakes to guide them toward self-improvement, I don't see any reason that a given couple can't build a lasting and healthy marriage.

The obvious fault I see in the "affair relationships that end up as long term marriages" statistic is that it creates a false dichotomy. Is it any less likely than a relationship that began as an affair will result in a long-term marriage than it is that *any* relationship (regardless of its origins) will result in a long-term marriage.

Quick example: From the time I was 14, I figure I dated something like 15 girls at least semi-seriously (i.e., anything more than a month). I married two of them. My personal relationship track record indicates that dating me will result in something like 13% chance of ending up in marriage. And my first marriage only lasted 2.5 years, so it hardly qualifies as a successful, long-term marriage. So only one of my relationships meets that criteria, which puts my success percentage in the range of 6.5%.

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Marlowe] #250475
08/05/12 01:21 PM
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I have seen these "relationships" last as long as any other. Some seem happy, some not....same as any other relationship.

I agree with Marlowe about this...

Quote:
Quick example: From the time I was 14, I figure I dated something like 15 girls at least semi-seriously (i.e., anything more than a month). I married two of them. My personal relationship track record indicates that dating me will result in something like 13% chance of ending up in marriage. And my first marriage only lasted 2.5 years, so it hardly qualifies as a successful, long-term marriage. So only one of my relationships meets that criteria, which puts my success percentage in the range of 6.5%.


IMHO, those of us that have been hurt by affairs would like to think these vultures can never find happiness in the arms of their AP's. Sadly, that isn't the case.

For me, I don't knowingly maintain friendships with people involved in affairs. This stance has cost me what were once considered to be valuable friendships. In the long run, I simply don't trust infidels and, IMHO, those that marry their affair partners never stopped being wayward.



Don't go shaking the [Bleep!] tree and expect an angel to fall out.

Liars lie and cheaters cheat...know it and don't be surprised. Protect yourself.

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Medc] #250478
08/05/12 02:36 PM
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Medc,
I am like you in that I do not knowingly maintain friendships with people that are having affairs. I think about the harm they are doing to their mate and family and it is a big turn off to me, so I choose to not maintain a friendship with those folks. I do not do/say anything hurtful, but rather I just fade away. So, don't sweat the small stuff.

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: twom7] #250525
08/05/12 09:31 PM
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I agree, I also have never maintained friendships with those in affairs or who were in between affairs on their partners.It was bad enough my dad was having affairs and the age I was had to watch it all and put up with it, I am just repelled now by people who are in affairs. The whole thing repells me, I get to an angry flash point pretty fast if I am aware of deception in affair circumstances, I absolutley will not have it in my life now.

And yes Medc perfect thoughts, in marrying the affair partner they did not stop being wayward, I don't look at it as a marriage. It is a continuation of a lie.

Marlowe, I don't look at dating a lot in the same way as cheating on your spouse, it is another animal altogether, the deception is huge. Vows, expectations, the trust level, when an affair happens it brings down all that is at the core of the marriage.

Last edited by Tinkerbell; 08/05/12 09:38 PM.
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: ] #250724
08/07/12 02:48 AM
08/07/12 02:48 AM
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My ex, is one of those that stayed with OW.

It started 4 years ago, and he affaired her on 10-10-10. Is he happy? He says he is "blessed every day to have PP (plastic pig) in his life).

So I guess that means he is happy being demoted;
he is happy for gaining 50 pounds
He is happy going back to drinking after 15 years of sobriety
He is happy to go into bankruptcy within 2 years of the A and owe 60K which he is paying back 100% now
He is happy that he totally estranged from both Daughters.

I don't get it..


You could put a white dress on a pig, guess what it is still a pig.

Formerly Hope3343
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: faith3343] #250730
08/07/12 02:57 AM
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Faith - I think your clue is that he has gone back to drinking, after 15 years of sobriety. He is "happy" that he has his first love again - alcohol.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: believer] #250732
08/07/12 02:59 AM
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Alcohol is a known way to deaden pain. And integrity. And guilt.

Also makes for beer glasses.

OW must be a catch.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #250786
08/07/12 05:26 AM
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I see the fissures of cracking in the rocks.

Drunk dialing to his daughter. Yes I agree that alcohol is the "greatest" love.

He was a good man once..imperfect but a good man. An alien left a pod for my husband and took him.

Life is not the way I planned but there are good moments too.


You could put a white dress on a pig, guess what it is still a pig.

Formerly Hope3343
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: faith3343] #250960
08/07/12 11:00 PM
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wrong thread

Last edited by Tinkerbell; 08/07/12 11:01 PM.
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Medc] #251197
08/09/12 09:17 AM
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I'm with you on this one. I have 2 different friends that I've known for 20+ years (i.e. 1/2 our lives or more) that are both in A's. I was maid of honor/best man at both these weddings.

My male friend married his AP about 5 years ago. Cracks are surfacing, and even though I want to be there for him, I can't bring myself to. They adopted a boy about 18 months ago; still haven't met him. Mind you, they live 1/4 mile from here, as well. Told him point blank that, given *my* sitch, it's too painful to be around them. After he goes thru D #2, I guess we can be close again.

Female friend left H after 15 years to be w/AP (also m'd). Told her what I thought about that, haven't heard from her, except very politely, and at a distance, for a YEAR. Her and I lived together, and were best friends for 10 years, and now she is a polite stranger. She didn't want to hear what I had to say; I didn't want to hear what she had to say. When I told her about H's A, her response was 'that's the sort of low quality person you'd expect that from'. WTF???

I can't imagine that either of their sitches will end well. Once that happens, then they'll come crying on lifetime friends shoulder.

It will probably be hard not to say the obvious 'what the [Bleep!] did you think was going to happen?!?'


M & H: 42
M: 8 T: 10
OW: 1/09 Bomb: 9/09
Sep: 3/10 H files 7/10
3/12: pushing hard for d; H seems to be waking up (not enough to DO anything)
Spring 13: D accomplished

Letters to Mr. Vulcanized
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Vulcanized] #281184
02/20/13 08:31 PM
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Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #295682
05/08/13 09:30 AM
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Just because this is a very popular thread with our lurkers, I thought I'd add in the posts each original link went to

Quote:
I found this on the MLC website "The Hero's Spouse"

It's the best article that explains the available statistics and their source.

Will the MLCer Marry the Alienator?
Relationships that begin with infidelity rarely last. The statistics vary and I have found only book sources rather than formal surveys of statistical collections of data. A cursory Internet search brings up several sources misrepresented across multiple websites. How many cheaters marry the alienator and how many of those marriages eventually fail? That's what you really want to know.

Dr. Jan Halper surveyed 4126 men who were successful career professionals. 82% (~3383) of the men she surveyed cheated on their spouses.1 3% (~124) of those surveyed eventually married the affair partner. 2 This was a specific survey that focused on high-level career professionals--numbers may differ for men in different industries and at different professional levels. The 3% is out of the entire 4126; 18% (~743) of those men claimed uninterrupted fidelity, thus the 3% is not 3% of those who cheated; that figure is (~124)/(~3383) or 3.7%. Those who reference Halper's study sometimes fail to point out that it focused on a certain population of men--high level career professionals--and I did not find a single instance where it was noted that the 3% was from the total survey number of 4126 which included men who claimed uninterrupted fidelity. Halper's study is helpful in that the survey size was large, but she did not offer data about the length of the marriages that resulted from infidelity. Did most eventually end in divorce? We may assume that to be the case, but assumptions have no place in statistics.

Annette Lawson is misrepresented as stating that less than 10% of men leave their wives for the affair partner in her book Adultery: An Analysis of Love & Betrayal. Here is what Lawson said regarding those who participated in her survey:

While over 70 percent of the faithful remained married to their original spouse, this was true of just over half of the adulterous, and the more liaisons a person had, the more likely it was that they would not remain married to the first spouse. If they did divorce, only about 10 percent…married their lovers…Given the number of liaisons in total, these forty-seven serious affairs represent barely 2 percent of all liaisons. 3

Lawson did not state the 10% statistic was relating to how many cheating men leave their wives for the affair partner; rather she stated that 10% who do leave their wives marry their affair partner. In This Affair is Over!! Nanette Miner and Sandi Terri report that "Most affairs do not end blissfully, with the man and girlfriend together. Of our survey respondents, less than one percent of the men left their wives for their girlfriends--although nearly 53% said that they would. In some instances, the man did leave his wife, and yet still did not commit to his girlfriend."4

Now most of you are already in the situation where your spouse has left and for many of you, your MLCer seemingly left for the alienator and they are now living together even while you remain legally married. From your place it doesn't matter what percent leave their spouse, you are already in that number, so how many who marry the affair partner eventually divorce? Sorry, but I have thus far found only one reference repeated multiple time across the Internet.

References to Frank Pittman state that 75% of marriages that begin with infidelity eventually fail. This is referenced as though it comes from a formal survey. Here is what Dr. Pittman actually says:

There is something inherently doomed in those marriages that began as marriage-wrecking affairs. It is possible for them to work, but it is unlikely they will do so. In my practice, while over half the people who get into romantic affairs end up divorced, only a fourth marry the affairee. Even then, three-fourths of those romantic marriages end up in divorce. There is a greater likelihood that the divorcing partner will be back with the original spouse in five years than that the romantic affair will be a stable marriage at that time. 5

He does not state that his numbers are from a formal survey, but rather they are from his patient samples and those referencing Pittman ignore that he states that a fourth (25%) married the affair partner--much higher than the other surveys just mentioned. Pittman does not give the sample size--the number of patients in his practice. This was not a flaw on his part, he was not making claims that this statistic would hold true under rigorous testing, rather it is the fault of others who have taken this reference and implied that it came from a formal survey.

Most affairs do not result in marriage and of those that do most will end in divorce. That is true for your MLCer as much as it is for someone who is not in a midlife crisis. It is true even though your spouse hates you and is head-over-heels in-love with the alienator. Just because your spouse seems to mean it that she hates you and is in-love with someone else and will marry him it does not make it true; most say those things and yours is not the special exception that is more stubborn or more in-love.  
Sources

1. Halper, Jan. Quiet Desperation the Truth About Successful Men. New York: Warner Books, 1988. page 205.
2. Ibid., page 22.
3. Lawson, Annette. Adultery: An Analysis of Love & Betrayal. New York: Basic Books, Inc., Publishers, 1988. page 287.
4. Miner, Nannette and Sandi Terri. This Affair is Over!! Bristol CT: BVC Publishing, 1996. page 21.
5. Pittman, Frank. Private Lies. page 246-247.


Will the affairees end up together?

Quote:
Author Unknown

You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't have with his wife. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you are - and he's the first person to really do that, isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, isn't it? It's hard being on your own, managing a household, and doing it all yourself. All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable. He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for, because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you. He's really sincere this time.

He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right? Not with you. You're special. So what if he told his wife the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his shyt with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you.

He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targeting the same types of women. That doesn't mean that he'll be turn emotionally abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?

So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.

So what if he didn't leave his wife before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 4 decades of emotional abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.

And those stories of how his wife emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counselor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too! If his wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.

Even if in his past, he DID say, "Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly ... It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance". It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads." ... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with his wife, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.

He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, rubbing baby oil all over you, making love, sending you little cards, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, literate, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. No. This time, he'll be different, with you.

So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his wife (just about the time you two started up again): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.

Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Because you're special. His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. She must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.

Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with his wife. He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.

He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He can always claim that he doesn't have good "memory" for things in the past. But don't worry. He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.

The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if his ex doesn't want to have anything to do with him, and now think he is mentally ill, it must be because SHE is unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with HER TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU.
This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.

Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it), but HER mistakes and reactions to his emotional abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life.

And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU. He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices for you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.

He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.

It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his wife was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbeCOMing when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times! Can you imagine? Nobody else is allowed to have anger and raise their voice except HIM. Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.

And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting emotionlly abusive again because of something YOU did.

And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you. He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. With you, he won't withhold information, or distort or omitt the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!

And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way? So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU. He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.

And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after he abandon her, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.

And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his wife, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him.

And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.

He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU. So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you. He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.

You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?

And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his wife could be FRIENDS now. He can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.

But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence to other women - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.

He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.

You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.

YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play headgames anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his shyt together. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.

He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.

You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?


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Are you the other woman (or man) caught in the web of infidelity?

Picture this. Two friends walk into an all-you-can-eat buffet. One woman immediately joins the line and starts filling her plate with everything she wants. The second woman doesnt join the line. Instead, she waits until the other woman returns to the table begin pilfering the leftovers from her friends plate.

What's wrong with that picture?

If you are at an all-you-can-eat buffet, why would you want leftovers from anothers plate?

Thats the million-dollar question we attempting to answer.

Think about it. When someone gets involved with a married person, part of the choice they make is to eat the crumbs, rather than the whole cake.

Before you read onheres fair warning:

What follows constitutes my opinions, tips and advice for those who find themselves playing the part of the other person in the unfortunate triangle of infidelity.

You will find no judgment here.

It is my opinion that infidelity and extra-marital affairs call for insight into cause rather than punishment or blame.

However, I also believe that minimizing, denial and dishonesty does no one any favors. It is important to face the reality of where we standespecially if we are standing in quick sand.

My desire for you is simple: To be the voice that reminds you why you deserve more.
ABOUT THE PART YOU ARE PLAYING

Affair Other Woman

"I never wanted to be 'the other woman'.
But 17 years later I still am". - Keisha S.

Welcome to the fractured version of the happily-ever-after fairytale.

In this version, instead of marrying the prince, Cinderella settles for being the mistress of the king instead. Rather than have her own home, attend her own balls, and be the darling of his kingdom she is the kings dirty little secret.

Of course, the king tells Cinderella to be patient. Someday (when the timing is right) he will leave the queen for her and she will be his queen. He locks her away in a tower in the far end of the kingdom and visits her occasionally.

Years go by with no sign that the king will ever leave his wife. He always has a good excuse. The parliament wont allow it. The people of the country would be too disappointed. He would have to give up his crown. The time is just not right.

Fast forward to the end of the story. We see Cinderella...old and worn down, head in her hands, sad, lost, bitter and alone.

Obviously, this is the version of the fairytale nobody wants to hear.

When you play the role of the other person in an extra-marital affair you officially become a member of a club no one ever dreams of joining. No matter what decisions got you where you are you can make a new, better decision for yourself.

The fact is, VERY few people deliberately or intentionally start out in life wanting to be the third wheel. Sadly, there is no denying it happens all the time.

The right person at the wrong time?

This story always begins the same. You meet someone you are attracted to, except they are not available. But (for whatever reason) you either decide to dip your toe in the water or you may even throw caution to the wind, and jump in head first.

At first, you think you can handle it.

But as time goes by, your attachment to this person continues to grow. They begin to matter to you more and more. You begin to believe that she/he really is right for you. Youve never met anyone like them. The way they make you feel when you are together is intoxicating. Before you know it, you think and dream about them. You can totally picture them in your life permanently.

Never mind that he has a wife (who doesnt love him, understand him or treat him right) OR that she has a husband (who neglects her, puts her down and doesnt love her.)

You tell yourselfTHIS is the person for me. I love him/her. Our timing is just off. But we are so great together that its worth sticking around until we can work out the particulars of being together.

Choosing fantasy over reality.

The trouble is the world you have created together is NOT real. Its based on deception, lies, secrecy and escape.

Heres what I mean

Before he or she met you, this person made a lifetime commitment to another. They promised to be exclusive and faithful for better or worse. Then along comes worse maybe he or she really is in a poor relationship. Maybe he or she really does have a sexless marriage. Maybe he or she really isnt getting enough love, affection or attention at home.

This should all be a big RED FLAG for YOU!

Think about it. Whenever someone tells you they want to have an affair with you because of problems at home, BEWARE!!! No matter how GOOD you think they areits evidence of weakness. Instead of dealing with their real issues, they look for escape. Unfortunately, they will use you (like a drug) as their escape.

The bottom line is this. Until the fog of deceit, lies and secrecy clears, there is no way for either of you to tell if what you feel is real.

If you allow yourself to get sold a bill of goods, you choose fantasy over reality. It hardly ever ends in happily ever after.

Love, Intimacy and Emotional Unavailability

There is no reward in pretense. The only true rewards come with facing reality. The reality is someone who is committed elsewhere is emotionally unavailable to you on many levels.

As much as they might want to give you everything, a person with a divided mind is never free. When they are playing both sides of the fence, they have to divide their emotions.

There is no such thing as real intimacy when one person is leading a double life. Its all a facade.

Just like a broke person cant give you a hundred dollars, this person CANT give you the intimacy, openness, honesty and vulnerability that you deserve and that is necessary to develop and sustain true love. Even if they dont intend to, they are bound to, and WILL eventually hurt you.

Forbidden Affair
The attraction of the forbidden

It is human nature to want what we cant have.

If you give a toddler several toys but tell him not to touch one particular toy, he will feel compelled to go after it as soon as you walk away.

This tendency is natural and exists within all of us. Knowing this doesnt necessarily lessen the lure. We are all confronted with millions of choices everyday. Its up to us to choose whats best for ourselves.

The wanting what you cant have fixation acts like a drug on your nervous system. It can be so intense that your whole world narrows down to that ONE thing (or person). You may find yourself craving them. You might even mistake these intense feelings as love.

Whats the secret to reversing this attraction?

Reverse your focus. Switch your attention from the wanting to the having. Remind yourself, wanting is not nearly as rewarding as having.

Whenever you find yourself thinking of a person who you know to be forbidden or emotionally unavailable, STOP! Think to yourself I am focusing on the wanting and not on the having.

More info here


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Have you ever considered that the man you're dating may be cheating not ON you, but WITH you?

You could unknowingly be his mistress - the other woman in his life.

Dating deception is very common these days. It's common for married men to misrepresent themselves as single men, especially if they have no qualms about cheating on their mate.

Many single men in committed relationships also misrepresent themselves as men who are available to date.

And it's up to the single woman who gets involved with one of these deceptive men to find out the truth on her own, before she gets too deeply involved.

Continue reading on Examiner.com: 6 signs YOU may be the other woman in his life - Are you dating a married man? - National infidelity | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/infidelity-in-na...n#ixzz1K92fQifW


Are you dating a married man?

Originally Posted By: Mark1952
LG, (Congrats on the color change, BTW!)

I don't have a link handy with numbers or percentages, but have some conclusions from a study conducted by the U.S. Department of Health on the first page of my blog.

I might have a link bookmarked at home that I'll check on when I get there.

Quite a bit of research has been done about this with sort of mixed conclusions which I believe lies in part with the preconceived ideas of some of the researchers. Robert Emery, PhD, from the University of Virgina has done a lot of work. A small sample can be seen here: How Divorce Affects Children

The University of New Hampshire Cooperative Extension Service has published a short PDF on the effects of divorce on children. Here.

There is this from Sara Eleoff at The Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine who says:
Quote:
  • Divorce and its ensuing ramifications can have a significant and life-altering impact on the well being and subsequent development of children and adolescents.
  • The consequences of divorce impact almost all aspects of a child's life, including the parent-child relationship, emotions and behavior, psychological development, and coping skills.
  • There is a significant need for child mental health professionals, along with other child specialists, to be cognizant of the broad spectrum of possible fall-out from a divorce and then to provide sufficient support for children of divorced parents in all the necessary psychosocial aspects of the child's life.
Short article from The Child Advocate here:Divorce Effects on Children

Here's an article that cites statistics without having to wade through the body of work to find them: 18 Shocking Statistics About
Children and Divorce
by Larry Bilotta. Each item in his list gives the source which can be found elsewhere.

Long term studies have been done in both the U.S. and Great Britain that can be accessed by subscribing to various organizations and websites, but the studies themselves can be mind numbing to gather any real information from. Generally the conclusions end up being cited somewhere in short order and this is where most of our "statistics" come from.

Significant "statistics" regarding children and divorce include:
  • About half of all children will witness the divorce of their parents before they are 18 years old.
  • About half of these children will witness the break up of the second marriage of one or both parents.
  • About 10% of them will see the break up of a third marriage of at least one parent.


Children whose parents are divorced are less likely to marry and more likely to divorce. They are about twice as likely to seek counseling as adults and are treated for such illnesses such as asthma at a rate of about 1/2 again as much as children from stable first marriages. They are nearly 3 times as likely to be the victims of sexual abuse and significantly more likely to drop out of school before completing high school. Children from happy marriages are 14% less likely to divorce than those from broken marriages. They tend to marry later and if you marry after the age of 25 your risk of divorce is reduced by 24%.

Now all of this is what I found in a single search using Google. None of it required going beyond the first page of the results to find it. Though I can't access the study because I am not a subscriber, I even found a study examining the differences between children of divorce and children who lost one parent to death, just by the time tested method of "browsing" the web and following links begun as a search.

One thing I did not find was any evidence that children of divorce have fewer or even statistically the same problems later in life as those of intact families. And for me that is the really telling part. While some anomaly might occur, statistically speaking, children from intact marriages fare better in life overall than those from broken marriages.

Is there a specific statistic )or set of same) you're looking for or just some general stuff?


For more statistics, click on the blue link below

Marital Statistics

Quote:
In the book Private Lies by Dr. Frank Pittman, a summary is made of several reasons why second marriages between persons involved in an affair very seldom succeed.

Generally it is noted that disasters are inevitable when people use romance to jump from marriage to marriage without a rest stop between. Dr Pitman says that there is something inherently doomed in those marriages that begin as marriage-wrecking affairs.

He noted that in his practice while over half the people who get into romantic affairs end up divorced, only one-fourth marry the affairee. It is likely that over three-fourths of these affair marriages end up in divorce. He says that there is a greater likelihood that the divorcing partner will be back with the original spouse in five years that that the romantic affair will be a stable marriage at that time.

He gives 12 reasons for this phenomenon:
- Intervention of reality
- Guilt
- Disparity of sacrifice
- Expectations
- General distrust of marriage
- Distrust of affairee
- Divided loyalties
- The nature of infidels
- The nature of affairees
- Romance
- Scapegoating the betrayed
- Unshared history

Out of 100 couples, (Pittman's sample in his book private lies)
He said 50% of affairs couples divorced.
But, only 12% (12) actually married OP.
And then 75% of those failed (12*.75)= 9
Thus only 3 married betrayers are left

These are the defects he lists for marriages between the spouse and the OP.

1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During the affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a 'switch' that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didn't. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.

2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a surprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about something and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the reluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newly-wed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blithely, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.

3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.

4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likely to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.

5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likely to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affairs. People who distrust marriage have a very hard time being in one.

6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and people who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.

7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.

8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romantics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.

9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, just as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.

10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have already demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.

11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.

12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity to relationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrassing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past are not totally proud of their new marriage.



For more, click on the blue link below
Relationship Statistics


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #298852
05/30/13 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Lil
In the book Private Lies by Dr. Frank Pittman, he has a very good summary of reasons why second marriages between persons involved in an affair very seldom succeed.

Generally he notes that disasters are only inevitable when people use romance to jump from marriage to marriage without a rest stop between. He says that there is something inherently doomed in those marriages that begin as marriage-wrecking affairs.

He noted that in his practice while over half the people who get into romantic affairs end up divorced, only one-fourth marry the affairee. It is likely that over three-fourths of these affair marriages end up in divorce. He says that there is a greater likelihood that the divorcing partner will be back with the original spouse in five years that that the romantic affair will be a stable marriage at that time.

He gives 12 reasons for this phenomenon:
- Intervention of reality
- Guilt
- Disparity of sacrifice
- Expectations
- General distrust of marriage
- Distrust of affairee
- Divided loyalties
- The nature of infidels
- The nature of affairees
- Romance
- Scapegoating the betrayed
- Unshared history

Out of 100 couples, (Pittman's sample in his book private lies)
He said 50% of affairs couples divorced.
But, only 12% (12) actually married OP.
And then 75% of those failed (12*.75)= 9
Thus only 3 married betrayers are left

These are the defects he lists for marriages between the spouse and the OP.

1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a switch that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.

2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.

3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.

4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.

5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.

6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and people who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.

7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.

8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.

9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.

10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have alredy demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.

11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.

12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally rpoud of their new marriage.

___________________________________________
Supplementary Information:

DISHONESTY... Inevitably, lies must be told to the OP in order to keep them believing in the WS and their "honest intentions". Be it "the divorce is in progress" or "I have no feelings for him", etc. - these are all seeds of destruction. Lies like these drive a wedge in the real level of intimacy possible between the infidels. The WS feels they have an "emotional connection" with the OP, but the reality is they're hiding their true feelings. As time and reality intercede, the feeling of this wedge becomes more and more palpable and impossible to ignore. Soon, more and more lies are spun, and eventually the infidels are caught in their own web, leading to discord and tension.

SELFISHNESS... A common theme among WS is a strong vein of selfishness. They think and act in ways that benefit themselves first. Even when they think they're acting in a kind, heartfelt way for the OP, the reality is that the underlying motivation is that of expectation of having needs met. It's the classic Giver / Taker scenario. The fact that their Taker is firing on all cylinders within the marriage doesn't stop it from acting in the affair environment. They may think it's their Giver acting, but that would require a much deeper bond, devoid of all of the above points. With their Taker in charge, the infidels can never truly develop the close emotional bond possible from a "honest relationship", thus allowing their Givers to operate.

5% is probably close to the accurate number. If you look at SC's stats from Private Lies, if 1/4 (25%) of all affairees marry the affair partner, and those marriages have a 75% divorce rate, then only 25% of 25% have a successful, lasting marriage, which would be 6.25%. That makes the 60% odds of reconciliation between the married couple look pretty darn good

There is another perspective. Over 50%-60% of the marriages end in divorce and *most* of them do so because one or the other partner has found another love interest. Most of the time it is not known to the other divorcing party, so don't get counted on the statistics board.

However, there are *many* more affairs than marriages or divorces, since a wondering partner (or even the BS) may try out several love interests (the way every dating man/woman does) before finding his final love interest and divorcing. Hence the number of affairs may be (say) 10 times the number of marriages. That is a large reason why the success rate of the affairs is counted low.

Originally Posted By: Marriage Builders
According to Dr. Frank Pittman, the "mortality rate" of affair-marriages (AM) is as follows:

5 years -- 75%
10 years - 90%
"Lifetime"- 95%

I do not know the particulars of your WW's situation or of the other AMs you cited, but know that even these generally daunting odds are OPTIMISTIC in most specific cases. Here's why...

These stats take into account ALL AMs -- even those that are 'done right' (in a twisted sense obviously) from the get-go. He cites a number of criteria that seem to be associated with a much higher liklihood of AM "survival". This is not an exhaustive list but covers the biggies that I recall (and please understand that I'm not condoning this but merely illustrating the factors involved):

1) The AM-partners (AMP) take lots of TIME between divorce(s) and re-marriage. They do not rush in "as soon as the ink is dry" or even within a few months, but wait AT LEAST a full year before re-tying the knot. They usually maintain separate residences while 'dating'.

2) The AMP are either both childless or both have adult/grown children. Blended families, and particularly single-sided ones, are highly problematic even in 'normal' marriages much less AMs.

3) The previous marriage(s) being left were TRULY AWFUL unions. Not just the typical 'drifted apart' or 'needed improvement', but horrifically dysfunctional from the start.

4) The AMP truly gave their full and sincere effort to rescuing their marriage(s) prior to the affair and left it rationally rather than purely emotionally. IOW, the relationship between the AMPs was NOT a just flight-of-fantasy romantic "I-just-fell-in-love-with-someone-else" escape.

5) The AMP were very upfront and honest about their relationship from early on to their spouse(s) and didn't scapegoat/blameshift/badmouth their stbx(s) too badly.

6) The AMP made great efforts to genuinely & successfully win the voluntary support of their family and friends. No deceit or coapting was involved.

7) The AMP are generally well-matched individuals: similar ages, tastes, interests, plans, goals, beliefs, persoanlities, etc.

8) The AMP MUTUALLY decided to marry later as a logical, eyes-wide-open choice between them. They didn't enter the AM from a childish ga-ga, 'soulmate', BFF, emotionally-addicted infatuation state nor did they do so out of need , insecurity, or dependency.

9) There was minimal "disparity of sacrifice" between the AMP. IOW, they both came from fairly similar places in their respective life-situations. One partner did not 'give up much more' in terms of career, education, family/friends, desire-for-children, finances, hobbies/recreational-pursuits, religious practice, or ethical-compromise than the other in order to stay together.

10) The AM is the 2nd marriage at most for both partners.


Yes, there are some AMs that meet (at least most) of these criteria and those are the ones with the highest liklihood of staying together for decades. If you take even a casual perusal around MB and perhaps around your WW's possible-AM, you will see massive violations of the above. Examples:

1) Vast age differences
2) AMP with virtually NOTHING complementary/compatible between themselves besides sexual organs.
3) Shotgun, rapid-fire AMs hot on the heels of divorce(s)
4) Blended families...often very-poorly blended ones
5) Ex-spouses and ex-marriages that were highly scapegoated and highly-salvageable repectively. Usually little genuine effort was made by the AMP(s) before running off.
6) Enormous emotionally-laden puppy-love/soulmate fantasy in one or both of the AMP.
7) Very little honesty, introspection, and reflection about the previous relationship before AM'ing
8) Broken and strained family/friendship relationships
9) Substantial "disparity of sacrifice" between the AMPs in order to maiatain the relationship. One often sells out virtually everything once important to them while the other doesn't have to or didn't care that much anyway.
10) The AM is the 3rd or greater marriage for one of the partners.


When you see an abundance of these latter factors, I doubt that the 'mortality rate' is much less than 90% at 5 years and 100% over a lifetime.




Will The Affairees End Up Together?


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #299164
05/31/13 01:33 PM
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Wow. Staggering statistics.

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #299166
05/31/13 01:39 PM
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I guess if you are the one having an affair, that might be a good reality-check to think about, but... if you aren't the one having the affair, why does that really matter much?

If you are a BS and trying to affix a mortality rate to your former spouse's new marriage to his/her affair partner, it just smells of trying to maintain some sort of control and connection and hoping for some kind of revenge rather than detaching and getting on with your life, IMO.



Your Time Perspective Can Heal
Mend the broken, make strong the weak and vanquish the evil.
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: TimeHeals] #312087
08/29/13 08:59 AM
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Quote:
While it's true that there are happy marriages that start as affairs, they are in the minority. Only about 5% of all affairs end in marriage, and only about 1/3 of those marriages survive the first five years. You probably have one chance in 100 of turning this marriage into a successful relationship, and you're off to a terrible start in spite of your love and commitment.

I have a theory about why marriage after an affair is so unsuccessful, but the fact that they're unsuccessful is well documented.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #312102
08/29/13 01:05 PM
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Nice bump,

I totally agree with what everyone here has written, and my experience is a little different as I was never involved in cheating, per se.

I.E. no real person was involved.

However, I am fairly convinced that cheating is involved in almost all marriage breakups.

In my case it was fantasy novels and heros from the books.
Of course there is no way to verify that and it is just a guess on my part.
Total mind reading.

I think most of the advice given here is spot on and we can't love them back to us.
Let them go and have reality wake them up at some point down the road.
Its just a long road.
So best to make good use of the scenery on the side of the road while you are travelling on it.
That way it is more about the journey and less about the destination!

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: TimeHeals] #312104
08/29/13 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
I guess if you are the one having an affair, that might be a good reality-check to think about, but... if you aren't the one having the affair, why does that really matter much?

If you are a BS and trying to affix a mortality rate to your former spouse's new marriage to his/her affair partner, it just smells of trying to maintain some sort of control and connection and hoping for some kind of revenge rather than detaching and getting on with your life, IMO.



There is no way my wxh would have divorced me for his OW. However, I knew I could never trust him...didn't trust him BEFORE d-day truth be told.

Still and yet I was devastated. And even though I knew I would never take him back and in fact I remarried a year after the divorce, I am STILL interested in whether cheaters end up together.

For me personally I feel MUCH better since knowing the OW is out of my xhs life. Now I don't have to worry about her being in my ds's life or that xh might someday marry her. My son feels better too.

And it was only when they broke up that the fog lifted enough for him to really understand what he has done and he was able to express real remorse. Even though my life has gone on fine without his remorse, being sincerely apologized to has helped too. He even apologized recently to the BH of his OW.

Waiting around for a cheating mate seems icky to me. Blowing up an affair immediately and saving a marriage...yeah I get that even though it wasnt what I wanted. But waiting around for a year, 2, 3.....while the wayward lives with the OP? No. I believe it is demoralizing and it embarrasses me for them.

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: SmilingWife] #328943
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Jan Halper's study of successful men (executives, entrepreneurs, professionals) found that very few men who have affairs divorce their wife and marry their lovers. Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers. When you average in statistics for the rest of the general population, including women, that figure jumps to 4 or 5 percent.

The fact that these marriages have such a high failure rate is of little consolation to the betrayed spouse.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #328951
01/02/14 02:53 AM
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If I can take the numbers you gave Lil, and extrapolate/reorient a bit, it seems that 5% of men who ruined their first marriage, have any interest in the idea of marriage thereafter. Remember, these were men who once saw marriage as attractive enough to enter the first time, and then found an AP with enough to offer to tear them from their BW. And let's bear in mind that they were the WSs, so little if any of the "she done me wrong; you can't trust women" mindset should be at play here. So what happened to them to put them off of the institution between the first "I do" and the current "No way!"? To make it more startling, if "successful" can be said to have some correlation to "insightful", the smarter guys are running away faster!

Anyone care to chew on this here? I'll participate if I can be assured that "(Your opinion is) a load of crap" is not again anyone's brilliant(?) answer to one of my notes. That can be.....discouraging.

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: NeverGuessed] #328953
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I try to keep up with finding new information for this thread because its one that comes up again and again with our guests, usually after they've done a google serch with the phrase "% of affairs than end in marriage"

My guess is its mainly APs, and BS's doing the search, based on my observations of WS's not really thinking about marriage except in the most vague of ways. They are more focused on what they have right there and then ie the affair, with no reason plans to change the status quo.

it is interesting that you see evidence that men are LESS likely to marry a second time thant they were they first time.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #329026
01/02/14 03:13 PM
01/02/14 03:13 PM
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abelljo Offline
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Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: abelljo] #329147
01/03/14 01:03 AM
01/03/14 01:03 AM
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Am I Too Late Offline
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One thing i find in researching infidelity, is that the vast majority of articles and studies seem to point out the Cheating Husband and the disparaged Betrayed Wife.

I have not done an actual sampling of the roles for each sex committing the Adultery, but my Spidy Senses seem to point out that there is at least an equal, if not more percentage of Wayward Wives compared to Wayward husbands.

This is my "Gut Instinct", yet that may be perceptually biased due to my own circumstances.

This is after being on DB, MB and also MA, with just a casual dip into SI, LS, 2into1, Midlife Crisis Marriage Advocates Hero's Spouse and TAM, plus probably several others i neglected to mention.

Has anyone ever combed through all of the new threads at any particular forum to study the frequency ratio of WH/BW vs. WW/BH?

I feel the results would be interesting and informative.

AITL

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Am I Too Late] #329161
01/03/14 02:01 AM
01/03/14 02:01 AM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
I would guess it's about even, and though I hate to disparage my own gender, I think th old southern saying:

There ain't nothin' meaner than a mean woman

Tends to hold true in infidelity. Don't get me wrong, I've read some bad bad WH stories, but the bad WW cases I have seen are pretty darn chilling. And we women know ho to use victimhood as the perfect emotional smoke screen when wayward.

Last edited by herfuturesbright; 01/03/14 02:05 AM.
Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: abelljo] #329175
01/03/14 03:02 AM
01/03/14 03:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
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Lil Offline

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Originally Posted By: abelljo


That is a really good article!

re BH/BW ratio in the real world, I suspect its is about 50/50, BUT my observations on the handful of forums Ive looked at is women are more likely to be active forum members than men. Not just infidelty, I belong to 2 dietry based forums and one has 1 guy to 30 women! I also belong to a plastic surgery forum and at a guess theres 1 guy to 200 women. Men just tend to not use forums


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #329187
01/03/14 04:30 AM
01/03/14 04:30 AM
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Am I Too Late Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lil
Originally Posted By: abelljo


That is a really good article!

re BH/BW ratio in the real world, I suspect its is about 50/50, BUT my observations on the handful of forums Ive looked at is women are more likely to be active forum members than men. Not just infidelty, I belong to 2 dietry based forums and one has 1 guy to 30 women! I also belong to a plastic surgery forum and at a guess theres 1 guy to 200 women. Men just tend to not use forums


I very strongly disagree with the very last sentence. Although that may be truer for dietary type forums, it does not hold true for typical male activity forums.

I am/was a moderator on about 7 different Contractor and other Construction related forums, with the largest having a signed up membership of well over 100,000 participants and approximately 8,000 were regular weekly or daily posters.

So, depending on the subject matter, many men are all in for their passionate topics of interest.

I sense a greater proportion of men seeking out marital advice, even before infidelity is discovered.

We may not wear our emotions on our sleeves, yet i feel our emotional stake in our families and marriages run as deeply as any female posters.

AITL

Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Am I Too Late] #329196
01/03/14 05:59 AM
01/03/14 05:59 AM
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New Zealand
Lil Offline

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I would agree that subject matter is going to skewer male female ratios. There was a Christian forum I was on years ago which was guy heavy, so I agree men are able and willing to input into a topic they feel strongly about.

My only real experience of infidelity boards is limited to MB and MA, which lean somewhat towards females, and TOW which tilts heavily towards females.

I fully believe men have emotions, even if they show them in male specific ways that women may not notice. I also have read comments in the past from men bemoaning the fact that infidelty forums have a lot of women and a derth of advice that encourages men to be strong, without being tools. One of my favourite threads on MA was made up of posts by Chrisner who was a BIG asset for the MA men
Chrisners thread


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: Lil] #329576
01/05/14 06:20 AM
01/05/14 06:20 AM
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Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Lil Offline

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AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Do people who have affairs end up together? [Re: AntigoneRisen] #445676
05/28/21 04:58 AM
05/28/21 04:58 AM
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New Zealand
Lil Offline

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Lil  Offline

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Bump


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


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