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Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: believer] #282002
02/25/13 03:10 PM
02/25/13 03:10 PM
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KAGreen Offline
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Now, just so you know I'm not affiliated with his business, I'll tell you I bought my copy off of EBay much cheaper, uploaded it to my iTunes & resold it. I didn't expect much. After listening to it however, I purchased his Change SOS program and his monthly Marriage Fitness continuation program. After multiple divorces and meeting the man of my dreams, I had to find the secret to staying in a permanent and happy marriage. Following Mort's advice has taken our relationship beyond what I ever thought was imaginable! I've learned to fix myself, my control issues, my insecurities, my lack of trust. Every time I react to a situation by doing what Mort would advise, instead of following my "feelings," my auto-pilot, or my instincts, our relationship grows stronger by leaps and bounds. Before, my reactions would cause my relationships to destruct. He has changed me as a person, positively influenced my mate by him seeing such growth in me, and given me the love relationship of a lifetime. There's nothing I would trade for being this in love!!!!! I've listened to his tapes over & over on almost a daily basis!!!! I can't live without Mort's positive support. He keeps my head straight. I've stopped the destructive patterns of discussing my relationship issues with my girlfriends and simply put in a tape to get the best advice and support I could ever want. If I had it to do over, I would order the materials directly from Mort so I could get the laser session included. But, however you come by the materials, you won't find better advice anywhere. I've read everything I could get my hands on; Mort is the BEST!!!!!!!!

Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: KAGreen] #282014
02/25/13 04:22 PM
02/25/13 04:22 PM
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Welcome, KAGreen!

It's nice to hear from someone who's been through the Marriage Fitness program and is successful. I've read a lot of his stuff online and found that he had some excellent ideas.

Did you find that doing it by yourself worked well? Or was your husband onboard? Or did he change along with your changes?


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: TimeHeals] #297233
05/18/13 01:22 AM
05/18/13 01:22 AM
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I am new here. I have been spending a lot of time reading the reviews and thought I would put myself out there for any and all advice. I have been in a relationship for nearly 12 years that has been rocky since the get go. Mostly due to my infidelity that happened several years ago and a lack of trust that has been present since. I recently had contact with an old friend from HS, haven't really seen or heard from him in nearly 20 years. He was very persistant in contacting me. Once I answered I thought that "this is harmless, he just wanted to catch up!" Well, I knew that it would look bad on phone records, and I was right. I didn't have an emotional, mental, or physical affair at all. Considering my past though, my spouse has decided that it looks bad and doesn't really see how it couldn't have been an affair.

He told me nearly 2 months ago that he was leaving. He told the kids 1 month ago that he would be leaving. Things had been fine, quite normal to be honest. Getting along, intimacy, family activities etc...The past few days he has been reminding me that he has made his decision and will be starting the moving process this weekend.

I am heartbroken. I love him with all that I have and know that I need to do a better job at showing him. I am begging, bargaining and trying to reason with him. None of which is working, big surprise.

I have been receiving the Mort Fertel emails and even considering starting the Lone Ranger program. My fear, or hesitation, is that what if it's gimmicky? Does it work? I am ready and willing to DO the work, even if it's hard. Just wondering if anyone has experience or advice!

Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: Msshell] #297235
05/18/13 01:36 AM
05/18/13 01:36 AM
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Welcome Msshell. Glad you found us. It's a great place to be under the circumstances. I suggest you post in the protected forums -
Finding the Way, or the Lighthouse. You'll get better help there.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: believer] #297294
05/18/13 09:04 PM
05/18/13 09:04 PM
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To answer your question, while I think Mort Fertel's program teaches good things on how to have a happy marriage, I don't think it is very successful in saving a troubled marriage. He seems to have strong supporters, because I see comments about his program all over. However, he used to have a forum on his site, and I didn't see any successes at all there. It was just depressing, and has no been eliminated.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: believer] #297303
05/18/13 10:09 PM
05/18/13 10:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
As a FWW myself, I would also encourage you to begin a thread on our Way Station as well. If you cannot see it yet, then try sending a private message to one of the moderators or administrators. It is a forum specifically for those who are struggling with the aftermath of their own infidelity, and it is a safe place to talk about things.

Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: rodion] #312264
08/30/13 07:47 AM
08/30/13 07:47 AM
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Rich57 Offline
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Originally Posted By: rodion
I think the idea of "standing for your marriage" is probably similar to what you've described. Mort also recommends a more-or-less 2-year timeline. You need to give it at least a year of "Herculean effort," as he calls it, before deciding to call it quits. If you have a distressed marriage, it could take at least that long for things to turn around. The same is true for affairs. After at least a year has passed, and you are certain that you have left no stones unturned, he then suggests you can consider reevaluating and, if you decide to throw in the towel, he recommends staying off the dating scene for at least a year. Some of this isn't "boot camp" or book material, it comes up in the Q&As that he does.


I guess this answers the question about the time limit.
Maybe?

Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: Rich57] #316992
10/04/13 02:27 PM
10/04/13 02:27 PM
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Yes, Mort's book is really really helpful. Maybe it won't work for everyone but honestly, its the most effective thing I've done for my marriage. My husband and I were having issues (trust, emotional infidelity, etc) and it felt like our marriage couldn't be repaired. He was resistant to therapy and I felt like I just didn't have the energy to give.

As a last ditch effort I picked up Marriage Fitness because my sister recommended it to me and I just can't thank her enough.

Mort Fertel is a genius. Or, at least, he understands a marriage in distress like no other counselor or therapist I've seen. One thing that really stuck with me was the part about marriage being a skill. He made me feel less badly that I wasn't excelling at my marriage. He made me see that it's okay to have problems and you just need to accept that if you're committed to staying with your spouse.

My sister went through the lone wolf program and saved her marriage. I read his book and saved my marriage. I really feel like we both owe our happiness today to Marriage Fitness with Mort. Maybe it won't work for everyone but without his program, I would probably be divorced by now.

Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: NicoleS] #317047
10/04/13 06:40 PM
10/04/13 06:40 PM
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Mark1952 Offline
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Nicole,

Welcome to Marriage Advocates.

I think that Mort's program might be a really good way for some couples to come back from the brink, but like most other programs, it might work really well in a lot of cases but for some, might become counterproductive. I think that most people miss the point in a lot of these things and end up focused on doing something, or nothing, rather than actually solving problems that will allow for saving the marriage.

What I have witnessed in the past 7 years or so is that those who find some positive way to begin self-examination and keep their focus on what they can fix, are more likely to end up with a decent marriage than those who completely look at what their spouse needs to change. We seem so intent on fixing our spouse that we miss the obvious. It is that thing Jesus talked about... we want to get the speck out of someone's eye when we have this timber in our own that keeps us from seeing what we can actually do something about that will make a difference.

Some of what we tend to do is felt as control by a spouse who is disconnecting more and more. We pursue, they withdraw. We pursue harder, they pull back farther. Unless that cycle ends, the marriage simply stops existing in any real sense. Once we let go, they can stop running. Then and only then can they stop to look at where they are headed and consider where that might let them end up.

The other part that gets screwed up a lot is that we never find anything that actually helps because we are too busy looking for what changes our spouse. We want a magic bullet in part because we have this view of love as being sort of magic. We don't know why or how it works and so we want to bring it back instead of repairing what is left and restoring the parts that need fixing. When we concentrate on what we can actually control, the stuff we are doing, we can make changes that might actually improve the marriage enough that it can survive. Often times, this causes the spouse to reinvest and before long both of us are invested.

One more mistake too many make, I think, is to turn any marital discord into a battle that must be won. It is you against me, my way or yours, one winner and one loser and no matter who wins, the marriage loses because unless you are both willing to be part of the same marriage and work together, who is right and who is better or more loving, caring, sharing or invested doesn't matter a bit.

So I think like a lot of materials that can help fix a marriage, Mort's stuff can help in a lot of situations. I also think that for some situations his approach is less productive than others, and in a few might even be counterproductive to saving the marriage. The thing is, I have not seen a program or proses that works in all cases or is better in all cases. That is sort of why we got started around here. One size seldom fits all and in most cases doesn't really fit most of us very well even if you can get the thing on... At least without some sort of alteration or adaptation.

One more comment here... I think a lot of the time, someone will be "following" a certain program or process but really be filling in a lot of holes it has in their situation with other stuff that really isn't part of the program itself. Often these things are actually part of another program, though we might not even have read anything about that program. I think most programs offer a good place to start, but most people don't understand the ideas behind the program and so don't actually do what it suggests at all. If it fixes the base problems in the marriage, then following the entire thing works. If it doesn't fix what's broken, then no matter how long you do it, the thing never seems to work very well. "I cut the board three times and it's still over an inch too short" comes to mind here. Those who find other ways to adapt it to their own situation are more likely to find the program useful and in any case, unless you buy into the foundational assumptions of the program, none of any program will work for you.

Now for a few questions. I am glad you found something that works for you and for others as well. I know it has also failed to work at least a few times, so I am wondering if you might be able to shed a little light on why that might be.

What are the primary and foundational starting points for Mort's materials? In other words, what is the main point or set of assumptions upon which Mort builds his program? He does this whether he tells you what he is doing or not. He believes something specific and from that start builds everything else in his program. I could on;y figure it out by reading everything he ever wrote and studying his stuff looking for principles and starting assumptions. Because it worked for you, I hope you might already have understood how it works, why it works and what it is made of. I believe that this is why some people get a program to work and others do not in many cases. When we buy into the basis, we are more likely to follow the process. When the foundation supports the fix for what needs fixing, simply working within that context can usually find a solution. If the assumption about an affair, for example, misses the affair it is trying to address, not much within the program can be applied effectively.

What principles or consistent ideas permeate Mort's program and process?

What other materials have you tried (if any) and what did Mort's program fix that anything else did not fix or could not fix?

What was it in your own marriage that Mort's material fixed or resolved? Do you know why it worked that way or why it worked to fix it when nothing else would? Or did you find something that worked and stuck with it because it worked? In other words, did you look at a lot of stuff and find something that worked or find the first real effort to be working and so stopped looking into other stuff?

I'm not trying to put you on the defensive, here, Nicole. I am using your post as a place to begin looking at this kind of question. I know Mort has won awards, written books and is promoted all over the place. I also know his business model is geared toward promotion, so am not surprised so many recommend his stuff. I have even found people who promote his stuff constantly whose marriages are no longer together, their spouse has married someone else and they still remain confident that they have been following a path to reconciliation. To be honest, I have no idea how that might work, because though I think a couple might one day get back together, I don't think continuing to work toward remarriage is appropriate when the person you are pursuing is married to someone else. In a lot of cases, that is the very problem that precipitated the whole mess.

So, I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but whenever I meet someone who is a strong proponent of any specific program, I want to understand that program better, because I know many programs work some of the time, but so few work some of the time that any part of one that might help supplement another is worth finding, in my estimation.

So that you know where I am coming from, I used a program that was not Mort's but adapted the ideas to save my marriage rather than try to fix my marriage to save it. The program helped fix it once it was saved. My wife and I now teach the program to other couples, hoping to help them fix their marriages before they need saving. (We do this for free and are not authorized by the person who developed the program. We do it because we know it works a lot of the time, not so anybody can make a lot of money from it. I do not and never have worked for him been paid by him or been coached by him, and have even been banned from his forums in large part because I am here as an active part of this place.) I think that might be where people don't get it right most often. A process to fix a marriage can't often save it unless the ideas behind the program are understood and adapted in other ways.

I think this is sort of why so many experts and marriage gurus start their discussion of recovery from infidelity by saying that the first thing that must happen is that the affair must really end and be over. The problem is that some recommend waiting it out and doing nothing, some recommend constant confrontation and some recommend a mix of things that work some of the time and don't work a whole lot more of the time because each actual affair is pretty unique within the frame work that is so common that most people can't identify how they differ.

Once the affair is over, rebuilding is hard, but easier to find a process to apply to than it is to find a method that brings an end to an affair. I think part of the problem is that nobody really knows how to bring about the end of an affair because at the most basic level it involves some sort of manipulation and controlling of someone else. That alone, I think poses a problem not many are willing to take on.


Again, welcome to MA and thanks for the input and any insight you might have.


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: Mark1952] #317880
10/10/13 05:02 PM
10/10/13 05:02 PM
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uncertainone Offline
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Very very interesting, Mark. I'm not a fan of Mort Fertel and certainly don't think he's a genius unless "you're" talking about a marketing genius, but so were the folks behind fen-phen. Spoiler alert. It can kill you.

I honestly think if we can look at some, not saying all, of the reactions people go through as a very basic and not sexy evolutionary response to rejection. Helen Fisher, an anthropologist has a much better take on this. Oh, and she did some neat little things like empirical evidence. So, there's that.

I wrote something about this based on life exposure and experience with people. I don't have the education or technology at my fingertips Helen Fisher et al do so my take is far more pedestrian.

I know some have joined our forum in a desperate attempt to get help to salvage a marriage broken by our choices. It is a drive and obsession. It's easy to spot. Every post is relationship related with little interest in self analysis. Self flagellation and denigration are de rigueur.
I've started the countdown with how long they'll remain in our presence and then vanish either because they regain what they feared they lost or they lose. Either way, no further work is needed.

I have been very hard on this and I'm wondering if also very unfair. I've read quite a bit of Helen Fisher, the anthropologist from Rutgers. She has done some amazing work in the relationship field and attacks it from a very scientific perspective. I just came across this.

She found that losing love is an addiction in and of itself. It stimulates the same part of the brain as an addict going through withdrawals.

"The evidence is clear that the passion of romantic love is a goal-oriented motivation state, not a specific emotion," Fisher said, adding that the results showed that romantic rejection is a form of addiction, and those coping with these hurtful feelings are fighting an uphill battle against a strong survival system.

"There's a whole pathway that when you are rejected becomes activated just as it does with nicotine cravings or alcohol," Fisher says. "These areas are associated with physical pain and decision-making. If you've been rejected, you're in pain, craving this person, trying to figure out what's going on.

Fisher says that rejection causes the neurotransmitter dopamine to wash over the brain, triggering feelings of frenzied desperation that can lead to behaviors such as stalking, homicide, andsuicide.

"You crave the person who dumped you," She says "You go through withdrawal, you can relapse, and cravings can be sparked months after you think you've gotten over it."

The good news is that though it may take a while, the researchers say they found that the greater the number of days since rejection, the less activity showed up in the brain area associated with attachment.

I wonder if the reason some BS's aren't able to heal is there is no number of days. Each day with an unremorseful spouse is another rejection. If the spouse themselves has become linked to that feeling of rejection as an anchor emotion no matter how remorseful they may be just their presence triggers that feeling for the BS. That anchor emotion has to be identified and replaced.

I know this is not a supported conclusion, but I'm wondering if the pain of break ups can be as much "fantasy" as affairs themselves. I use fantasy in quotes as it never was a term that resonated with me. Whether something is fantasy or reality is rather pointless if the effects are the same thing and feel all too real.

If affairs trigger chemicals wouldn't rejection do the same thing? The reason this seems so relevant is how emotionally keyed up we are right after d day, both BS's and WS's. Making decisions, choices, life altering at times, at a time least conducive to any rational thought process.

I hope that given the pain so many are in they can separate necessary work from outcomes but I'm wondering if given this dynamic if it's possible in the early stages.

Rejection is such a primal fear for some that I believe many feelings caused by experiencing it can be very easily confused with love, hate, on both sides, when it's the rejection itself that is the catalyst.

I feel the 180 and filing for divorce, while it's hopefully not done for any reason other than healthy ones, is viewed many times as a "wake up" for the WS. I would love to believe that and maybe for most it is. I fear at times it creates this exact dynamic and while it may feel good to be hung on to and chased it's not for the right reasons. I'd be a lot happier hearing "if that's what you need to do to heal I understand. I created your need to make that choice. I'm here and will be for you working on myself" than "I'll do anything to fix this no matter what".

Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: uncertainone] #317889
10/10/13 05:36 PM
10/10/13 05:36 PM
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Mark1952 Offline
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Uncertainone,

Have you been secretly reading my posts for the last seven years?
I'm a big fan of Fisher, Art Aron and a bunch of others who look for the science behind this stuff. One of the things I find most fascinating is that the science often explains the observations of previous researchers who lacked the technology to explain why and could only explain what and establish links to how to choose what to do.

Many of our assumptions about love and relationships turn out to be total crap. We see something and assign a causal relationship to something that feels right and might explain our current state. Most often we end up getting the data right, but get the conclusion wrong because we assume that how we feel matters to the whole deal. Thus, pursuing a a spouse who is withdrawing feels right, yet ends up driving them away. Taking it another step and saying that moving away will bring them back is another deal all together that isn't supported by science though stopping pursuit might stop the fleeing spouse long enough to consider other options including coming home.

I think most of us see two dissimilar choices as opposites when neither actually precludes or negates the other. Even in marriages we see your way or mine without understanding that one does not always nullify the other. We also fail to see that even between two extremes are many options, some of which might actually give us what we each want. We see either/or where both/and should be the way to decide.


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: Mark1952] #375536
02/05/15 04:23 AM
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Last edited by Mark1952; 02/06/15 06:16 PM.
Re: Mort Fertel's marriage fitness program? [Re: Am I Too Late] #375580
02/05/15 09:13 PM
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Can I summarize although tbh I did not read all the complaints.

Customers are not happy with the service!

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