Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 3 guests, and 30 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
 Trending Topics(Posts)
1.How to deconstruct a marriage.0
2.I am Sick, I am Sad, and I am needing some support.0
3.SIHW is back and Dealing with issues....0
4.looking for some support0
5.Social Networking Sites and Infidelity0
6.Signs of Infidelity0
7.The Difference Between Cheating and Infidelity?0
8.Not really sure how to survive0
9.The Five Big Lies That Keep You From Changing0
10.Pregnant and getting put out of the house by my husband0
*By replies in last 2 weeks.
In The Media(Posts)
Woman urges NC lawmakers to end child marriage: For her it was a ‘life sentence’3
COVID-19 and the Increased Likelihood of Affairs3
Does anyone remember this story?3
Validation to find-win-win slutions2
Things men want3
These Are The Signs You're Dating A Narcissist3
Girlfriend's 'controlling' list of 22 rules for boyfriend goes viral: 'She sounds crazy'9
What Divorced Men Wish They Had Done Differently In Their Marriages7
Alienation of Affection / Criminal Conversation9
Would you pay your ex a 'break-up fee'? - BBC3
more >>
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 10 1 2 7 8 9 10
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #334215
02/06/14 02:46 PM
02/06/14 02:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
holdingontoit Offline
Global Moderator
holdingontoit  Offline
Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
Glad to hear you turned a trigger into a pleasant memory. Thank you for sharing this story.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #334218
02/06/14 02:58 PM
02/06/14 02:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted By: Ace

Why did my W?H respond positively to my ultimatum after the 4th D-Day when he didn't during earlier confrontations?

It could be answered in a single word (or two): tolerance evolution.

My tolerance for his defiance evolved until after the 4th D-Day and then it snapped.

His tolerance for my being wishy washy endured until he saw I was done and then his tolerance evolved so that he chose to change.

Hmmmmmm.....makes my head spin but I gotta go to work. <sigh>
Does that make sense to anyone? scratch



Hey Hold! On my screen you've created a whole new page! cool Thanks for your kind words.

I'm curious about your (and anyone else's) take on what I called tolerance evolution relating to knowing when "enough is enough."

What do you think?

Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #334230
02/06/14 03:56 PM
02/06/14 03:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,806
NewEveryDay Offline
Advocate
NewEveryDay  Offline
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,806
Yes, that tolerance evolution totally makes sense to me

Quote:
From http://www.nhal-anon.org/Just4Today.html

Just for today, I will try to live through this day only,
and not tackle my whole life problem
at once. I can do something for twelve hours
that would appall me if I felt that I had to
keep it up for a lifetime.


So when you had immediate issues, like another D-Day, okay, let's get through whatever is thrown at you today. And you have in mind what you would do next time. And that may change as you reflect and heal.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: NewEveryDay] #334242
02/06/14 04:36 PM
02/06/14 04:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
Member
herfuturesbright  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
I think the idea of tolerance endurance can be useful...

UNTIL it becomes yet another tool to keep one in limbo and prolong the agony indefinitely.

Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: NewEveryDay] #334378
02/07/14 02:39 PM
02/07/14 02:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted By: herfuturesbright
I think the idea of tolerance endurance can be useful...

UNTIL it becomes yet another tool to keep one in limbo and prolong the agony indefinitely.

Originally Posted By: Ace


I'm curious about your (and anyone else's) take on what I called tolerance evolution relating to knowing when "enough is enough."


I agree, Herf. I'm asking in retrospect to try to understand past events, not to try to justify future decisions (or lack of them).

Originally Posted By: NewEveryDay
Yes, that tolerance evolution totally makes sense to me
<snip>
So when you had immediate issues, like another D-Day, okay, let's get through whatever is thrown at you today. And you have in mind what you would do next time. And that may change as you reflect and heal.


NED, I saw where it appears that your tolerance for L not moving out seems to have evolved and ended based on the recent blog post I saw today. You're right in that it differs for each person and changes as one heals.

To me it adds a new perspective that probably has been discussed on the Peer Counseling forum. This Enough is Enough forum is probably more effective for posters who have reached the end of their tolerance, a state of mind that only the person enduring the pain can identify effectively.

If I had had an Enough is Enough forum over 7 years ago with posters encouraging me to drop the rope earlier, I might not have had to endure 4 D-Days. On the other hand, there is a huge chance that we might be divorced today....


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #335976
02/18/14 02:52 PM
02/18/14 02:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 915
K
kilted_thrower Offline
Member
kilted_thrower  Offline
Member
K
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 915
I know I'm way late on this but I just wanted to tell you Ace that I had the same experience with ready to call it quits. We didn't have the issue of infidelity but The Beautiful One and I couldn't stand each other. We just so mad at each other.

When I told my son how cool it was going to be that he was going to have two houses to live in instead of just one, he broke down. That broke my heart.

So I told The Beautiful One that we weren't going to divorce, that we'd have to learn how to get along, and I would have to learn to be a better husband. For once she was kind of speechless and didn't know how to respond. I think she was more shocked at my resolve and adamant attitude to stay married. I brought the 5 Love Languages home very soon after and then found MBuilders.

It's kind of crazy to go from not wanting to be married to her to not imagining a life without her.


Some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great. I just am great. --K. Powers

Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it. --Prefontaine



Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: kilted_thrower] #335978
02/18/14 03:19 PM
02/18/14 03:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Hi KT,

On the run but caught your post as I was shutting down my computer to go to work. Is it OK if I post your thoughts on the Success Story thread later? It'd be great if you tell the whole story there.

Thanks,
Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #335985
02/18/14 04:29 PM
02/18/14 04:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 915
K
kilted_thrower Offline
Member
kilted_thrower  Offline
Member
K
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 915
Sure. That'd be fine


Some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great. I just am great. --K. Powers

Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it. --Prefontaine



Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: kilted_thrower] #336050
02/19/14 02:09 PM
02/19/14 02:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
Sure. That'd be fine


Ummmm..."sure that'd be fine" meaning it's OK for me to repost your brief story on the Success Stories thread? Or "sure that'd be fine" meaning you're writing the whole story to post it there yourself?

I think I'll do the first and hope you'll do the second. We can ask the mods to merge them later...they don't have enough to do. wink JK laugh

In all these interactions we've had on MB and MA, I've never known your full story or what lead you to seek MB. That sounds fascinating. Many women seek leadership in a husband, especially when you're in what the legal world calls the state of "irreconcilable differences." Amazing. Thanks for sharing. Your story could inspire a multitude of couples, especially wives.

Has your Beautiful One ever written down her perspective on the ultimatum you issed? That'd be great to read, too.

Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #336934
02/27/14 03:08 AM
02/27/14 03:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,404
Utah
Kayla Offline
Member
Kayla  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,404
Utah
I've been pondering the pros and cons of ultimatums and the push back against them. And here's what I realized.

The push back in itself is an ultimatum. See - this is what the defiant wayward is really saying when they fight the idea of an ultimatum:

Quote:
You give me an ultimatum and I'm gonna match your ultimatum with my own ultimatum!


The truth of the matter is that ultimatums frequently are the only things that work. But remember ultimatums, to truly be ultimatums have to BE ultimatums. That means - done. consequences. over. Change required to alter course.

The hard-liners have won me over. After 14 years of reading MB and other sites. Ultimatums backed by immediate and overwhelming consequences and confidence is the only thing with enough power and strength to turn a ship headed for the rocks around. A lighthouse is not enough. A fog horn followed immediately by the hull scraping on the shallows and the shiver felt through the ship will be the only thing strong enough to get the captain's attention. Even so, sometimes captains are bent on destruction and care nothing for the ship.

In that case, the greatest probability of survival for the others in the ship requires at least they pay attention and bail out.

We're talking about ultimatums. Not bluffs. Not games of chicken. Ultimatums. Dead serious, filled with instant action and lacking in emotion.

Truthfully, bonafide ultimatums work. Even when they don't save the ship.

Last edited by Kayla; 02/27/14 03:09 AM. Reason: grammar

Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Kayla] #336940
02/27/14 06:29 AM
02/27/14 06:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted By: Kayla
I've been pondering the pros and cons of ultimatums and the push back against them. And here's what I realized.

The push back in itself is an ultimatum. See - this is what the defiant wayward is really saying when they fight the idea of an ultimatum:

Quote:
You give me an ultimatum and I'm gonna match your ultimatum with my own ultimatum!


The truth of the matter is that ultimatums frequently are the only things that work. But remember ultimatums, to truly be ultimatums have to BE ultimatums. That means - done. consequences. over. Change required to alter course.

The hard-liners have won me over. After 14 years of reading MB and other sites. Ultimatums backed by immediate and overwhelming consequences and confidence is the only thing with enough power and strength to turn a ship headed for the rocks around. A lighthouse is not enough. A fog horn followed immediately by the hull scraping on the shallows and the shiver felt through the ship will be the only thing strong enough to get the captain's attention. Even so, sometimes captains are bent on destruction and care nothing for the ship.

In that case, the greatest probability of survival for the others in the ship requires at least they pay attention and bail out.

We're talking about ultimatums. Not bluffs. Not games of chicken. Ultimatums. Dead serious, filled with instant action and lacking in emotion.

Truthfully, bonafide ultimatums work. Even when they don't save the ship.
emphasis mine

I agree, Kayla.

"Immediate, overwhelming consequences, instant action, no emotion."

I did not realize until I read your post that the "lacking emotion" part possibly might have convinced my H that I was confident, serious, truthful and determined to follow through.

It broke him but looking back, that was not my motivation. I wanted to save myself so when I was DONE and issued my ultimatum, his choice to change just happened. It was a bonus.

Like I mentioned earlier, it did not happen on D-Day #1 for me. I tolerated a lot of abuse before giving up. That was because I wanted to be able to say that I had tried my best and given it my all before throwing in the towel. The ultimatum was my final effort to not look back with any regrets.

Thanks for your post. It gives me more food for thought.

Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #337216
03/01/14 02:35 PM
03/01/14 02:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,404
Utah
Kayla Offline
Member
Kayla  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,404
Utah
Ace - more thoughts about what shifted for you, and me, and everyone who delivers a true ultimatum:

1. Internal growth/maturity - the realization that I don't have to be married to be happy

2. Recognition that tolerating financial, sexual or other forms of infidelity chips away at my personal view of my value as a human being.

3. Recognition that the other person also sees us as a lesser human being, to continue taking our forgiveness and hope and trampling it.

4. That they can never be the person that moves closer to their true potential by cheating, so I'm not doing them any favors by coddling them

5. Recognition of the impossibility of Plan A-ing enough to win them back - that there is no putting this back together gently or nicely.

6. The Hardline Ultimatum Approach now has all the vital ingredients of affirmation of personal value, confidence, clear perspective of future happiness and peace alone and is ready to be acted upon.

I came to the realization a long time ago that Plan A - Harley style, is not meant as a message for the wayward. It's a message to me. A person should only do Plan A long enough to remember that they're a good person worthy of love, respect, loyalty and fidelity. Which means it could be done in less than a day.

I've seen waywards get addicted to longer-than-a-day Plan A really fast, and down the road of recovery, if they start feeling needy again, use cheating becomes a way of getting more addictive Plan A treatment again and again, instead of learning that the day-in-day-out marital grind needs their effort and work. They never put in the work. Cheating becomes part of their toolbox. I've literally heard waywards ask/demand Plan A as a condition of stopping their cheating!

On the other hand, for the remorseful wayward who has been resistant to hardline approaches, I've seen fragile hearts who are remorseful and recognize how much the affair destroyed themselves. These were the ones in abusive, unbalanced marriages.

I think the best gift I would like to give them is a restoration of their self-worth - the same unwinding that Ace had to go through and Kayla had to go through to deliver an ultimatum with the clear intention to walk away.

These same 6 steps would work for a former/remorseful wayward or a man or woman who never strayed from their marital vows. Just substitute "abuse" for the word "infidelity" and you have EXACTLY the process for them - #1 being the hardest and longest to achieve in an abusive unbalanced relationship, and recognition that #2 is the cause of #1 being so hard to accomplish.


Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Kayla] #337229
03/01/14 05:03 PM
03/01/14 05:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,121
S
SmilingWife Offline
Global Moderator
SmilingWife  Offline
Global Moderator
S
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,121
Originally Posted By: Kayla
I've been pondering the pros and cons of ultimatums and the push back against them. And here's what I realized.

The push back in itself is an ultimatum. See - this is what the defiant wayward is really saying when they fight the idea of an ultimatum:

Quote:
You give me an ultimatum and I'm gonna match your ultimatum with my own ultimatum!


The truth of the matter is that ultimatums frequently are the only things that work. But remember ultimatums, to truly be ultimatums have to BE ultimatums. That means - done. consequences. over. Change required to alter course.

The hard-liners have won me over. After 14 years of reading MB and other sites. Ultimatums backed by immediate and overwhelming consequences and confidence is the only thing with enough power and strength to turn a ship headed for the rocks around. A lighthouse is not enough. A fog horn followed immediately by the hull scraping on the shallows and the shiver felt through the ship will be the only thing strong enough to get the captain's attention. Even so, sometimes captains are bent on destruction and care nothing for the ship.

In that case, the greatest probability of survival for the others in the ship requires at least they pay attention and bail out.

We're talking about ultimatums. Not bluffs. Not games of chicken. Ultimatums. Dead serious, filled with instant action and lacking in emotion.

Truthfully, bonafide ultimatums work. Even when they don't save the ship.


I love love this post. My years on marriage/divorce boards have opened my eyes to human behavior. I never could figure out why my xh wouldn't stop cheating on me. I know now it was because he could. The high he got from it was more than the remorse he felt at hurting me. And he didn't think I would leave. It was 4 years past D DAY when he really really understood what he had done and what he had lost. By then I was remarried. Now if I had tried to save the marriage after that final D DAY, he very well might have come to his senses sooner. But by then I was tired of the pattern and I wanted out.

Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Kayla] #337238
03/01/14 07:55 PM
03/01/14 07:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 794
NeverGuessed Offline
Suspended
NeverGuessed  Offline
Suspended
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 794
1. Internal growth/maturity - the realization that I don't have to be married to be happy

2. Recognition that tolerating financial, sexual or other forms of infidelity chips away at my personal view of my value as a human being.

3. Recognition that the other person also sees us as a lesser human being, to continue taking our forgiveness and hope and trampling it.

4. That they can never be the person that moves closer to their true potential by cheating, so I'm not doing them any favors by coddling them

5. Recognition of the impossibility of Plan A-ing enough to win them back - that there is no putting this back together gently or nicely.

6. The Hardline Ultimatum Approach now has all the vital ingredients of affirmation of personal value, confidence, clear perspective of future happiness and peace alone and is ready to be acted upon.


Kayla, I believe you only cover HALF the requirements for a successful ultimatum - one that is issued and complied with. What you have here is the content necessary for the BS to have the courage to issue the ultimatum, and to be comfortable with whatever the WS chooses. Without the correct WS orientation, such an action relies on "chance" - the ultimatum can be rejected, even with the most daunting consequences, with the WS gambling that the BS will not follow through.

THAT is the key variable that the BS must gauge - Does the WS understand that if BS says, "X will happen", that X WILL happen, come hell or high water? An ultimatum without concrete acceptance of the immutable consequences by the WS is not guaranteed to yield the desired results.

That "confidence" by the WS in the BS's follow-through is not something generated quickly and as needed. I must be something that the WS knows of the BS long before the crisis of behavior that the ultimatum seeks to resolve.

A lifetime of equivocation sets an unreliable base for the act.

Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: NeverGuessed] #337239
03/01/14 08:12 PM
03/01/14 08:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,404
Utah
Kayla Offline
Member
Kayla  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,404
Utah
You make a valid point - the smell of fear cannot be present in the betrayed and fed-up spouse because an unrepentant wayward or abuser will just think same-old same-old.

What's different here is that the wayward/abuser has lost a vote when it comes to this hard-line ultimatum place.

Speaking from personal experience - don't know if you followed my story on MB for many years or here - financial infidelity via non-contributing was the primary problem, followed closely by porn addiction. Enter "Lord of the Rings" OW and the chemistry in this patient betrayed spouse changed. Something in my brain switched on and I was done paying for a roof over his head, his internet and his phone-turned-into-cheater-phone, food, car, utilities and just about everything else, only to have him find some online/phone-ho to build his fantasy world around.

I don't know why it took me so long to reach the point of letting him call my bluff - his loss if he challenged me. I almost wanted him to challenge me, I was that ready to be done. Somehow he got this was not the old Kayla calling for change.

The confidence had to be generated within me. Wayward's confidence in my follow thru was irrelevant from my point of view, by the time I delivered the hardline ultimatum almost a year ago. It did not matter to me what he thought or how he responded. I was moving forward.

Confidence was definitely not generated quickly. It took years. And YEARS! But confidence is the right word. I did not care if he called my bluff. I was Clint Eastwood/Richard Mack/Charlton Heston - go ahead. make my day. My heart was as cold as it gets and has ever been. And I can still feel that resolve burning in me. There will not be another chance at recovery with another betrayal.


Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Kayla] #337268
03/02/14 12:06 AM
03/02/14 12:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,222
L
LivingWell Offline
Member
LivingWell  Offline
Member
L
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,222
What I learned is that an ultimatum is actually for me, not the person I am supposedly giving it to.

When I had done what I needed to do in order to issue an ultimatum (to myself), it was actually just passing on info to the other person. I had changed and it was only fair that I let him know how that might affect him, if he let it.

Imho, ultimatums don't work for a lot of people because trying to control someone else's response or behavior doesn't usually work without some kind of abuse to force it. When the ultimatum was for myself, it didn't involve trying to control anyone else.

Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: LivingWell] #337273
03/02/14 01:18 AM
03/02/14 01:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,007
The Farm
Jayne241 Offline
Member
Jayne241  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,007
The Farm
Originally Posted By: LivingWell
What I learned is that an ultimatum is actually for me, not the person I am supposedly giving it to.

When I had done what I needed to do in order to issue an ultimatum (to myself), it was actually just passing on info to the other person. I had changed and it was only fair that I let him know how that might affect him, if he let it.

Imho, ultimatums don't work for a lot of people because trying to control someone else's response or behavior doesn't usually work without some kind of abuse to force it. When the ultimatum was for myself, it didn't involve trying to control anyone else.


Exactly!


42.
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Jayne241] #337287
03/02/14 06:44 AM
03/02/14 06:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted By: Jayne241
Originally Posted By: LivingWell
What I learned is that an ultimatum is actually for me, not the person I am supposedly giving it to.

When I had done what I needed to do in order to issue an ultimatum (to myself), it was actually just passing on info to the other person. I had changed and it was only fair that I let him know how that might affect him, if he let it.

Imho, ultimatums don't work for a lot of people because trying to control someone else's response or behavior doesn't usually work without some kind of abuse to force it. When the ultimatum was for myself, it didn't involve trying to control anyone else.


Exactly!


This is really weird, almost surreal.

I read what you, Jayne posted on the "Respect vs. Rude" thread on the Peer Counseling forum, saying you thought the Ultimatum thread might be better on the Peer Counseling forum.

Now that I've read your reply to LW and Kayla's and NG's and SW's and K_T's posts, I'm having second thoughts about asking that this read be moved to the Peer Counseling forum.

It seems that we are speaking about our own experiences with our own ultimatums and the success or failure we accomplish (or don't) because we try to use an ultimatum to control another person.

But.....it MUST be for ourselves. That is the key. I never really realized it either. It is for us, not them. That way, whatever the other person does or does not do makes no difference. The main purpose must be to control our own destiny. If the other person chooses to change and the marriage is recovered it's a bonus. If not, at least we are able to begin recovering ourselves.

A poster named PSG has asked for tough talk on this EiE forum. I'm hoping she's reading this thread, too. If not, maybe some of us could help her on her thread in her effort to force her H to end his affair.

Maybe that could be the first thread posted on this forum where the OP asks for tough talk and we help them using tough talk. Like NG said to PDH on the "How to post tough talk" thread, I too, think it's worth a shot to share our own experiences to possibly save someone from repeating our mistakes.

Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #338299
03/09/14 04:30 PM
03/09/14 04:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Sorry it's taken me so long to move on your suggestion, Jayne. I've clipped the roster of threads on this EiE forum and maybe we can start the discussion that might determine if some should stay here (because the poster asked for "tough talk") and if others should be moved to wherever they best fit because they are more like theory threads about "tough talk."


Below are current EiE Thread Titles, original posters, number of posts, number of views, and the most recent date, time and post(er):

How can I help to end HIS affair!!! by Portsidegirl
8 282 Sun Mar 09 2014 08:45 AM by Ace

If You're in No Contact, Stop Talking to Your Spouse! by AntigoneRisen
69 (2) 22709 Sun Mar 09 2014 03:34 AM by lost rabbit

Demanding an end to the affair ( 1 2 all ) by Lil
92 6822 Tue Mar 04 2014 05:03 AM by KeepTalking

*** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** ( 1 2 3 4 5 ) by Ace
217 14252 Sat Mar 01 2014 10:44 PM by Ace

Dealing with an Angry Husband by LadyGrey
34 1807 Sun Feb 16 2014 09:45 AM by Princessdiehard

Chili's detaching tricks by believer
13 2450 Wed Feb 05 2014 03:32 PM by Portsidegirl


Those are the most recent EiE threads as of today but I'll list the others here for future discussion if appropriate:

Click to reveal..

This is how it's done, ladies
by believer 20 1451 Fri Dec 20 2013 07:58 PM
by LadyGrey

Chrisners Advice for Betrayed Husbands AKA Assult The Ambush!
by Lil 13 3979 Sat Nov 16 2013 06:14 PM
by Lil
No New Posts Topic with over 35 replies or 75 views.
Another hard core hardliner
by believer 31 2326 Sun Oct 13 2013 05:09 PM
by uncertainone
No New Posts Topic with over 35 replies or 75 views.
Surprise birthday party
by believer 5 942 Wed Sep 18 2013 12:31 PM
by Kittycat
No New Posts Topic with over 35 replies or 75 views.
How to go dark when we work at the same place?
( 1 2 all )
by Distraught 86 10046 Thu Aug 22 2013 12:42 PM
by I will survive
No New Posts Topic with over 35 replies or 75 views.
Interesting quote
by believer 12 1826 Tue Jun 11 2013 03:42 PM
by believer
No New Posts Topic with over 35 replies or 75 views.
The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase
( 1 2 3 all )
by Lil 117 32421 Thu May 30 2013 06:26 PM
by Marie
No New Posts Topic with over 35 replies or 75 views.
Hard core hard line - here's how it is done
( 1 2 all )
by believer 60 6797 Thu Apr 11 2013 08:14 AM
by Jayne241
No New Posts Topic with over 35 replies or 75 views.
Loving Detachment in Action
by Lil 3 1533 Sun Apr 07 2013 06:47 PM
by Princefan86
No New Posts Topic with over 35 replies or 75 views.
Lying cheating sale on CL
by believer 5 1351 Sat Mar 16 2013 12:36 PM
by Tinkerbell


I have some thoughts on if the threads listed above should stay or be transferred to another forum but I'd like other's ideas first:

1. Should the Enough is Enough forum be limited to threads posted by members wanting to have posts involving "tough talk" and threads with "theory on tough talk" be moved elsewhere?

2. Should the rules for EiE be changed to reflect those similar to the Way Station guidelines to give further protection to posters seeking "tough talk?"

3. Do either suggestions require any official deliberation or action by the MA PTB?

And last, but not least:

4. Do any posters who have participated on this thread recently have any objections to the possibility of this theory thread on Deal-breaker Ultimatums being moved to Peer Counseling or any other current (or possible future to-be-designated-later) forum?

I appreciate your suggestion, Jayne. I think this issue goes hand in hand with Mark's Hardline/Softline TOS thread on Peer Counseling. Let me know if I perceived your ideas as you intended or if corrections/additions are needed.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Ace

P.S. Portsidegirl posted a request for "tough love" suggestions on Feb. 15 and no one replied until NG posted 10 days later. She is leaving on vacation today so maybe we can figure this out and be better able to help her when she gets back.




Last edited by Ace; 03/09/14 04:32 PM.
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #344741
04/21/14 11:44 AM
04/21/14 11:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 794
NeverGuessed Offline
Suspended
NeverGuessed  Offline
Suspended
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 794
BUMP

Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: NeverGuessed] #416925
12/10/16 02:55 PM
12/10/16 02:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted By: Ace - February 19, 2014
Hi KT,

On the run but caught your post as I was shutting down my computer to go to work. Is it OK if I post your thoughts on the Success Story thread later? It'd be great if you tell the whole story there.

Thanks,
Ace
Originally Posted By: Ace
Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
Sure. That'd be fine


Ummmm..."sure that'd be fine" meaning it's OK for me to repost your brief story on the Success Stories thread? Or "sure that'd be fine" meaning you're writing the whole story to post it there yourself?

I think I'll do the first and hope you'll do the second. We can ask the mods to merge them later...they don't have enough to do. wink JK :laugh:

In all these interactions we've had on MB and MA, I've never known your full story or what lead you to seek MB. That sounds fascinating. Many women seek leadership in a husband, especially when you're in what the legal world calls the state of "irreconcilable differences." Amazing. Thanks for sharing. Your story could inspire a multitude of couples, especially wives.

Has your Beautiful One ever written down her perspective on the ultimatum you issed? That'd be great to read, too.

Ace
Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed - March 1, 2014
1. Internal growth/maturity - the realization that I don't have to be married to be happy

2. Recognition that tolerating financial, sexual or other forms of infidelity chips away at my personal view of my value as a human being.

3. Recognition that the other person also sees us as a lesser human being, to continue taking our forgiveness and hope and trampling it.

4. That they can never be the person that moves closer to their true potential by cheating, so I'm not doing them any favors by coddling them

5. Recognition of the impossibility of Plan A-ing enough to win them back - that there is no putting this back together gently or nicely.

6. The Hardline Ultimatum Approach now has all the vital ingredients of affirmation of personal value, confidence, clear perspective of future happiness and peace alone and is ready to be acted upon.


Kayla, I believe you only cover HALF the requirements for a successful ultimatum - one that is issued and complied with. What you have here is the content necessary for the BS to have the courage to issue the ultimatum, and to be comfortable with whatever the WS chooses. Without the correct WS orientation, such an action relies on "chance" - the ultimatum can be rejected, even with the most daunting consequences, with the WS gambling that the BS will not follow through.

THAT is the key variable that the BS must gauge - Does the WS understand that if BS says, "X will happen", that X WILL happen, come hell or high water? An ultimatum without concrete acceptance of the immutable consequences by the WS is not guaranteed to yield the desired results.

That "confidence" by the WS in the BS's follow-through is not something generated quickly and as needed. I must be something that the WS knows of the BS long before the crisis of behavior that the ultimatum seeks to resolve.

A lifetime of equivocation sets an unreliable base for the act.


I was contemplating beginning to write a "Success Story" post after realizing that it's been 10 years since our D-Day 4. I came across this thread on Kilted Thrower's post about "Ultimatums....do they work" and thought I'd try to see if KT is still around. It's been over 2 and a half years since he (and others) posted to this thread but maybe it's still relevant.

Kayla and SW and and LW and Jayne and NeverGuessed's posts helped me realize why my ultimaum worked. It was because it was MY ultimatum for me, not to control my husband's actions. I included it to help anyone who may read this bumped thread who needs help assessing whether or not an ultimatum will/might work for them. From reading this thread, with the proper perspective and complete components, it will always work for the person issuing the ultimatum.

Portside Girl was asking for 'tough talk' on this Enough is Enough forum but I don't think we ever followed through. I know this EiE forum was not intended for threads ABOUT tough talk---it was originally supposed to BE tough talk---but absent the former I thought I'd bump it before the forum goes away in a possible reorganization.

Has anyone been in touch with Portside Girl or Kilted Thrower? I'm hoping she got the help she needed and that he will post his full success story on that forum (before it possibly goes away in a reorg).

Thanks,
Ace

PS I'm still contemplating writing our Success Story post but it may have to wait until after the Christmas season.


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #417233
12/16/16 06:30 PM
12/16/16 06:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,611
The Dark Side of the Moon
AntigoneRisen Offline
Board of Directors
AntigoneRisen  Offline
Board of Directors
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,611
The Dark Side of the Moon
Quote:
It was because it was MY ultimatum for me, not to control my husband's actions


And there's where you get into some gold. It's not about controlling the outcome, it's about setting limits with yourself.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: AntigoneRisen] #417306
12/18/16 01:31 AM
12/18/16 01:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted By: AntigoneRisen

And there's where you get into some gold. It's not about controlling the outcome, it's about setting limits with yourself.


Thanks for the observation, AR. Too bad it's taken me nearly a decade to start getting to the point where I can internalize this stuff.

Of course, I tolerated limbo for 6 months before reaching the "enough is enough" level.

For some, that point comes earlier but for us, I had a need to know that I had tried E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. before moving on.

We only had "help" from an ineffective MC pre-D-Day 4 and I did not seek/find that other (MB) board until almost a month after WH? chose to change.

In our case, my WH? acted remorseful and was self-loathing for his lack of discretion. When he said he'd do anything to help me heal (including attending an MB weekend in London) I knew we had a chance to recover.

Click to reveal..
We signed up on an interest list for the London MB Weekend in late 2007 but they cancelled it so we went to the 2008 Anaheim MB Weekend instead.


Again, thanks.
Ace



We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: NeverGuessed] #445259
11/20/20 01:42 AM
11/20/20 01:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
BUMP


Hey NG,

I know you'll never see this but thought I'd bump bump it again again --- anyhow.

Interesting thread and someone was reading it tonight, Nov. 19, 2020....so up it goes.

Thanks,
Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** Deal Breaker Ultimatums...Do they work? *** [Re: Ace] #445378
03/27/21 07:07 PM
03/27/21 07:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline OP
Advocate
Ace  Offline OP
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted by Ace


Interesting thread and someone was reading it tonight, Nov. 19, 2020....so up it goes.



Someone else is reading today, March 27, 2021 so I'll send this thread up to the top of the scarce heap.


Page 9 of 10 1 2 7 8 9 10

Moderated by  Chrysalis 

Newest Members
Love_Smacked, starfire, JoyfulMimi, bruers, shattered72
2048 Registered Users
Latest Topics(Posts)
Hearts Blessing4
Woman urges NC lawmakers to end child marriage: For her it was a ‘life sentence’3
63 Marriage Facts1
COVID-19 and the Increased Likelihood of Affairs3
Updates Divorce Stats4
no more rainbow members?9
BR - The Art of War - Sun Tzu5
Questions & Answers About Marriage---responses from 7-10 year old kids4
seeing new members on mobile version5
Return of the Goddess31
Community Information
2048Members
1Penalty Box
6Suspended

42

Forums
8500Topics
463376Posts
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.031s Queries: 14 (0.009s) Memory: 3.3982 MB (Peak: 3.7941 MB) Zlib enabled in php.ini Server Time: 2021-10-20 22:09:12 UTC