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Re: What Is Love? [Re: Mark1952] #332268
01/22/14 06:06 PM
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Limerence-

From Wikipedia:
Limerence is an involuntary state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person combined with an overwhelming, obsessive need to have one's feelings reciprocated. The psychologist Dorothy Tennov coined the term "limerence" in her 1979 book Love and Limerence: The Experience of Being in Love to describe the concept that had grown out of her work in the mid-1960s, when she interviewed over 500 people on the topic of love. Full Article

Additional Articles on Limerence:

Dr. Gilda Carle, Ph.D.
Dr. Stephanie Sarkis
Joe Beam

A thread with another link to an article by Joe a while back: http://www.marriageadvocates.com/ubbthre...Spou#Post263627



mark1952.ma@gmail.com

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The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: What Is Love? [Re: 2long] #332275
01/22/14 06:14 PM
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What happens 2 love when one or both partners die?

Actually, what engages me more is when one of the partners (now a WS) doesn't have the common decency to die!

Too, too frequently, we have to counsel the abandoned BS to stop thinking of (and expending love on) the memory-phantom of the now-WS as he/she was before, and concentrate on (and generate disgust for) the soulless wretch that an active WS currently is.

I have found that making that sale, convincing the BS to turn off the love-pump directed at someone no longer worthy of the tribute, goes a long way to starting the BS on a path to self-respect. Sometimes, the WS gets a whisper of something having changed, asks, "WTF happened?", and magic can be initiated.

Re: What Is Love? [Re: Miranda] #332334
01/22/14 10:45 PM
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Well, I can accept a person having this description:
I'm a love em and leave em kinda gal.

...and I can understand a person stating:
I very well might have bitten off more than I can chew here, but I am damn well not spitting it out,

I can not, however, give any credence to a person self-describing by both of those two characteristics simultaneously, or concurrently to one relationship.

Sooooooo, what changed between what very well may have been an accurate story of your history (the first) and the steely resolve, "when you get to the end of the rope, tie a know and hang on" story of you today (the second)?

I can propose some facile answers. Some are complimentary to you ("It was extensive self-analysis that led me to discover that 'l-e & l-e' was demonstrative of a flawed persona I no longer cared to have."), and some, not so much ("Damn, I was running out of 'l-e & l-e' candidates!").

Care to explore?

Re: What Is Love? [Re: NeverGuessed] #332346
01/22/14 11:26 PM
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NG we could explore. I wasn't out of candidates. I did know this couldn't continue as a forever strategy but hadn't really come up with an endgame or alternative plan per se.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: What Is Love? [Re: Miranda] #332359
01/23/14 12:22 AM
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Limerence? It seems that is the same thing as what I thought was love all those years and then my obsession on the news of it all I decided what I fell into might have been habit...because I now see I really overlooked a lot of behavior that I should have at least thought about as I did notice it.

Re: What Is Love? [Re: NeverGuessed] #332360
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Ok I forgot how to do the quote so...
will bold it

Actually, what engages me more is when one of the partners (now a WS) doesn't have the common decency to die!



smile Sort of a yuperroo

You know in a way, after they are a wayward it does seem appealing in a romantic gone with the wind I shall grab dirt and yell at the moon thing.

Last edited by Princessdiehard; 01/23/14 12:30 AM.
Re: What Is Love? [Re: Tinker] #332756
01/25/14 11:50 AM
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Re: What Is Love? [Re: Shell shocked] #332758
01/25/14 11:58 AM
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Re: What Is Love? [Re: Mark1952] #332789
01/25/14 07:44 PM
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Hmmmmm, despite the (presumed) importance of this topic - love - as it relates to the subject of the website - marriage - it would seem that the number of actual, specific, submitted definitions of "love" open for analysis and debate is limited to.....one, mine of 21 January. What love is not, or how it is portrayed in song, or a partial categorization ("choice", which would mean deciding between pepperoni and anchovies on a pizza is "love") does not satisfy the query in the thread title, "What IS....."

That's okay, if mine is to be accorded recognition as the optimal possible definition, but that would be, in a word, astounding.

So c'mon, folks, what have you got? All of you in some fashion "loved" a member of the opposite sex, or thought you did. If what you had proved to be real, define what it was you had. If what you had was faulty (and your partner not loving you back in the same way, while tragic, does not decrease the validity of your love), then where did your actualization fail you?

This is a freebie, in the universe of MA topics. There is no one agonizingly dependent on our notes. Have at it!

Re: What Is Love? [Re: NeverGuessed] #332792
01/25/14 08:32 PM
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Looking for something I will post when I find it...

Till I find images of the Greek letters so that we don't have to install Greek fonts for it to work.

An article to look at in Wikipedia on the Greek words for love...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love

Last edited by Mark1952; 01/25/14 08:54 PM.

mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: What Is Love? [Re: Mark1952] #332794
01/25/14 08:42 PM
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The Four Loves - C S Lewis



mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: What Is Love? [Re: Mark1952] #332795
01/25/14 08:53 PM
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19 Propositions of Carl R Rogers (the father of the humanistic approach to psychiatry):
  1. All individuals (organisms) exist in a continually changing world of experience (phenomenal field) of which they are the center.
  2. The organism reacts to the field as it is experienced and perceived. This perceptual field is "reality" for the individual.
  3. The organism reacts as an organized whole to this phenomenal field.
  4. A portion of the total perceptual field gradually becomes differentiated as the self.
  5. As a result of interaction with the environment, and particularly as a result of evaluational interaction with others, the structure of the self is formed - an organized, fluid but consistent conceptual pattern of perceptions of characteristics and relationships of the "I" or the "me", together with values attached to these concepts.
  6. The organism has one basic tendency and striving - to actualize, maintain and enhance the experiencing organism.
  7. The best vantage point for understanding behavior is from the internal frame of reference of the individual.
  8. Behavior is basically the goal-directed attempt of the organism to satisfy its needs as experienced, in the field as perceived.
  9. Emotion accompanies, and in general facilitates, such goal directed behavior, the kind of emotion being related to the perceived significance of the behavior for the maintenance and enhancement of the organism.
  10. The values attached to experiences, and the values that are a part of the self-structure, in some instances, are values experienced directly by the organism, and in some instances are values introjected or taken over from others, but perceived in distorted fashion, as if they had been experienced directly.
  11. As experiences occur in the life of the individual, they are either, a) symbolized, perceived and organized into some relation to the self, b) ignored because there is no perceived relationship to the self structure, c) denied symbolization or given distorted symbolization because the experience is inconsistent with the structure of the self.
  12. Most of the ways of behaving that are adopted by the organism are those that are consistent with the concept of self.
  13. In some instances, behavior may be brought about by organic experiences and needs which have not been symbolized. Such behavior may be inconsistent with the structure of the self but in such instances the behavior is not "owned" by the individual.
  14. Psychological adjustment exists when the concept of the self is such that all the sensory and visceral experiences of the organism are, or may be, assimilated on a symbolic level into a consistent relationship with the concept of self.
  15. Psychological maladjustment exists when the organism denies awareness of significant sensory and visceral experiences, which consequently are not symbolized and organized into the gestalt of the self structure. When this situation exists, there is a basic or potential psychological tension.
  16. Any experience which is inconsistent with the organization of the structure of the self may be perceived as a threat, and the more of these perceptions there are, the more rigidly the self structure is organized to maintain itself.
  17. Under certain conditions, involving primarily complete absence of threat to the self structure, experiences which are inconsistent with it may be perceived and examined, and the structure of self revised to assimilate and include such experiences.
  18. When the individual perceives and accepts into one consistent and integrated system all his sensory and visceral experiences, then he is necessarily more understanding of others and is more accepting of others as separate individuals.
  19. As the individual perceives and accepts into his self structure more of his organic experiences, he finds that he is replacing his present value system - based extensively on introjections which have been distortedly symbolized - with a continuing organismic valuing process.


Additionally, Rogers is known for practicing "unconditional positive regard," which is defined as accepting a person "without negative judgment of .... [a person's] basic worth."

From an article here.


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: What Is Love? [Re: Mark1952] #333051
01/28/14 02:02 PM
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^Bump^


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: What Is Love? [Re: Mark1952] #333082
01/28/14 05:31 PM
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^Bump^

Dude! Have some patience, okay? I am not a stupid person, but I must insist on a couple days' grace to observe, orient, decide, and act on such concepts as:

denied symbolization or given distorted symbolization because the experience is inconsistent with the structure of the self.

This is waaaaay into the higher levels of Bloom's Taxonomy on this subject.

devil NG, who, beside yourself, negated the possibility of your being stupid?

Re: What Is Love? [Re: NeverGuessed] #333084
01/28/14 05:40 PM
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NG,

Just wonderin' where the rest with such precise and well defined opions might be.


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: What Is Love? [Re: Mark1952] #333085
01/28/14 05:47 PM
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I got nothin


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: What Is Love? [Re: Miranda] #333093
01/28/14 07:08 PM
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To me the explanation that made the most sense was the love bank. When someone does the things that get my attention, like smelling good, it makes an impression, and if it is good enough consistently enough then there is love. The exent of how much control I have over it is how much I let myself interact with the person. To detach I have had to deliberately limit contact. And to feel more in love I have to delibrately set aside time to be with them in good situations.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: What Is Love? [Re: NewEveryDay] #333097
01/28/14 07:45 PM
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I think based on the conversation elsewhere, that "love" might have more than one definition and that more than one might actually be valid.

Acting lovingly is love.
Being "in love" (a feeling) is love.
Sharing your life, in all its glorious and gory details is love.
Choosing to care for someone, no matter how (or in spite of) your feelings is love.
Wanting what is best for another person is love.

I think that in context of marriage, we might be talking about any or all of these and how they are (or become) part of a romantic relationship. (As opposed to other types of relationship)

How do the different types of love relate to what is supposed to be a lifelong relationship?

Even Harley begins with two definitions of the word. He makes a distinction between the feeling (being in love) and acting to show that your partner matters (what he calls "caring love").

Then he confuses things even more and begins talking about "romantic love" which seems to include aspects of caring love but is more the reactions of the beloved than it is the care shown by meeting emotional needs.

I also think that circumstances, conditions and context all help to determine what real love means at any moment in time. Which one matters most right now might be the one that is most important to us, at least right now.

Even in English we have both a verb and a noun as well as multiple definitions for each and the derivatives like loving, lovingly, loved, lover, etc.


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The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: What Is Love? [Re: Mark1952] #333224
01/29/14 08:02 PM
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I suspect that the reason that Dr H proposed "romantic love" was entirely commercial. He needed a bridge from "accumulated affectionate feelings" to their manifestation as actions or utterances, and his being so blunt and crass I as chose to be a few posts back (21 Jan), reduces the primacy and vitality of the much-lauded "boundaries", the establishment and maintenance of which make up a large portion of his books (and their sales).

So a covert "love bank" must mysteriously morph into a more potentially destructive force (rl), through no conscious act of the subject. It is this rl that is then bestowed with irresistible momentum that compels the commission of overt acts of lovemaking. Sorry, I call "bullspit!"

What he, and all purveyors of "therapy" can never admit, is that, assuming adequate training, and absent emotional pathologies, no one "falls into" love, with one's mate or with an illicit partner. One chooses to participate.

Where we have utterly descended into failure as a society, is in passing on that education in the forms of "Thou shalt not...." because "personal freedom" mandates that cultural prohibitions are anathema and barbaric.

In the (paraphrased) words of GK Chesterton, "Progress is not always improvement!"

Last edited by NeverGuessed; 01/30/14 02:43 PM. Reason: enhanced details
Re: What Is Love? [Re: NeverGuessed] #333449
01/31/14 03:22 PM
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Three articles at Psychology Today to take a look at and think about.

The first is by Robert J Sternberg who first described the Triangle Theory of Love, which is referenced in the other two articles by Susan Krauss Whitbourne.


From that article:
Originally Posted By: Robert J Sternberg
Treating problems in relationships by changing our behaviors and habits ultimately won't work because crisis comes from the story we're playing out. Unless we change our stories, we're treating symptoms rather than causes. If we're dissatisfied with our partner, we should look not at his or her faults, but at how he or she fits into our expectations.


The second article I already linked on another thread.


The third talks about the "passion" in Sternberg's triangle and mirrors my own view more closely than a lot things written that indicate that it simply dies and so consummate love must inevitably be replaced by other "more stable" kinds of love that are often described by proponents as "real love."



Sternberg's more recent "love story" ideas came about following the failure of his own romantic relationship, BTW.


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: What Is Love? [Re: 2long] #333948
02/04/14 06:48 PM
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I believe love is eternal and when both people die all the goodness that came from their love, for example their family continues for generations and generations to come.


DDay June 2013
Married 28 years (June2013)
My age 56
WS 54
D1 25
D2 22
Still in legal separation ongoing
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