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Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Lil] #23174
11/17/10 06:19 PM
11/17/10 06:19 PM
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Lil Offline

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Plan A = plan doormat?

Plan A does NOT mean you are a push over. It does mean that for a temporary period of time you want to be on your best behaviour so as to present a lasting reminder to the WS of what they could have, should they recommit to the marriage.

This may mean the betrayed spouse reassess their concept of the level of fairness, and be willing to be the catalyst of all actions needed to improve the chance of recovery. Having to do it all with no contribution from the wayward, can be detrimental to the self esteem of the betrayed. However, it can be said that in many cases, knowing you are performing the more noble action, ultimately leads to a building of self-respect and esteem.

Regardless of the outcome, in time you WILL be able to say to yourself "I did my best, I tried my hardest and let no stone unturned. I can go forth knowing I gave my all".

Having said all that, consider this question: "Would you be what others consider a 'doormat' for 3 months if you'd get a million bucks at the end?""

Now, what is the potential of your marriage worth to you?


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Lil] #23175
11/17/10 06:19 PM
11/17/10 06:19 PM
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Plan A gives the BS's backbone


The WS WILL be telling all and anyone things about the BS, and the marriage that shows them in a favourable light to the family and friends as well as to the OP. The best way to counteract this is by the oft debated exposure, and by this we mean exposing adultery where it matters most.

Exposure is not: vengeful, manipulative, or spread around willy-nilly. Make a list of the most important and helpful to the marriage people. These tend to be: OP's spouse/finance/partner, WS's parents, WS's siblings, WS's close friend, BS's close friends. Possibly helpful exposure people are WS's employer, OP's employer, OP's parents, BS's close family.
Do consider carefully who to expose to. If the first exposure doesn't give the expected results, try a wider circle.

Exposure must be done WITHOUT the WS's prior knowledge. They will move in before you and spin the events so that the BS appears unhinged, vengeful, bitter, and spiteful. To that end, exposure of all selected people needs to be done in as short a time frame as possible, such as within hours.

Exposure can be done by phone call, email, or letter. Be direct, honest and brief. Remember the recipient more than likely does not know of the affair, and the news will come as a shock to them.

The WS will not be at all happy once the consequences of the exposure come to rest on them. The will endeavour to share some of what they have been experiencing from the exposure recipients with you, usually in the form of fury, anger, poison, threats, and punishment. They will say things like "I was thinking of coming home/trying again/working something out BUT NOW YOU"VE DONE IT!", "You're just trying to control me." These comments and actions are designed to frighten you into stopping your affair busting activities. Exposure interferes with the powerful and much cherished fantasy of the affair and this is not welcomed.

They almost all without exception say this and the angers lasts about 2-3 days. Do not apologise for the exposure or for speaking the truth. Just say a variations of "I am fighting for my family, I am fighting to save my marriage" Broken record this response to any and all the WS's might have to say on the topic.

Do not attempt to reduce the resulting fallout from the exposure on the wayward. You did nothing wrong, the consequences are not yours to shoulder. Betrayed spouses have a habit of apologisng to the WS for things that were never thiers to own, and never thiers to fix. Do not be this kind of BS.

Never accept any belief that you are in any way responsible for the waywards choice to become adulterous. While you are responsible for 50% of the state of the marriage before the affair, at no time did you assist the adulterers into bed, nor did you fail to state an unhappiness with the state of the marriage to the point that someone else became an option.

Do not shelter the wayward from the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused to your children. if the children are old enough to understand right and wrong, they are old enough to understand that mummy/daddy has a boyfriend/girlfriend and that is just not right.

Set up financial and legal barriers to prevent the affair from impacting on marital assets as soon as possible, as well as providing protect for the children from the insanity of the wayward. A WS will bleed through a nest egg in next to no time in order to impress the OP. They will also neglect to the point of abuse, their own children. You have to be the grown up advocate for the children, as no one else will have their best interests in the same way.

Done well, your 'reward' from exposing the affair comes later when the affair is killed and recovery is made possible by your efforts. You might never get a hug and a kiss, a medal, flowers of chocolates for it (although my DH did thank me - once) but you will get either a recovered marriage, or a divorce where attempts to blacken you, failed completely.
Infidelity is a DESTROYER of marriages, of families, and of people. Stand up and FIGHT!


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Lil] #23229
11/17/10 06:55 PM
11/17/10 06:55 PM
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serendipitous Offline
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Nice posts Lil claps claps claps


The sun never says to the earth "you owe me"
Look what happens with a love like that.
It lights up the whole sky.
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: serendipitous] #23235
11/17/10 06:59 PM
11/17/10 06:59 PM
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I have more planned, but 2 more papers for school to complete first


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Lil] #26588
11/23/10 01:22 AM
11/23/10 01:22 AM
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Affairs die.

Affairs are based on lies, mistrust, fantasy and deceit. Once they are in the open and the affairees see each other in the true light and the damage they have done to all, it will finish. This may take longer than you hope for. Affairs nearly always end, and the WS nearly always tries to come home.Yes, it's true sometimes they don't end. Statistically the percentages are on the side of the BS.

The reason for Plan A/Plan B is to make the most impact for the future of your marriage, while giving the affair time to die. Plan A shows your spouse that you are willing to WORK towards a better and brighter marriage. Plan B shows the WS/WAS a taste of what life without you will be like. The plans are also for you to look at yourself and the relationship and to see what you/spouse were doing wrong. These need to be addressed, regardless of whether you and your WS/WAS ever reconcile.

Plan A is to assess what you have been doing wrong and for you to try to meet the needs of your spouse you have been neglecting. When the pain of an affair is too much to take, then you switch to Plan B. Depending on YOU and your gender, this may be anywhere from a few weeks to a few months. Extended plan A's are not ever recommended.

Plan B is for you. Without the distraction of the affair and WS, you can concentrate on yourself and keep learning good marriage principles. This will be essential should your spouse decide to return. If they don't return and you have reached the end of Plan B, then you can end the relationship without causing yourself much of trauma associated with divorce. After 18 months to a year, of plan B, the emotional attachment will slowly fade away. Much better the slow fade, than the bitterness and resentment being around an active wayward engenders.

If you learn nothing by following plan A and plan B, and spend all your time wishing for your spouse to get hit by the karma bus, then you will have a much more difficult time dealing with a possible reconciliation, divorce or any future relationships. The main point to learning all this, is to help YOU survive the affair. It is no guarantee it will save the marriage, however it is a pretty solid plan to ensure YOU can recover from whatever path the relationship takes.

Plan A/Plan B are by no means easy to do, but neither is divorce. If you follow them to the best of your ability, then you will come out much better off, than if you didn't have any plans except to "dump the bum". Remember, if you dont actually want to be divorced, dont file for divorce.

The plans are not designed to just "wait" for the spouse to return. The BS is to be actively looking at themselves, attitudes, relationship and communication skills and changing how they interact with others, not just the wayward spouse. The work done on yourself is not solely for the benefit your spouse. Many of the techniques with friends and family, co-workers and such, can be used beneficially in other relationships ALA ' "How to Win Friends & Influence People". In plan A/B we are not only learning how to be better spouses, but also how to be better people.

While "waiting" for your spouse to wake up, please realize they may end the affair and still not return to the marriage. I know this is NOT what you want to hear, sadly it's a real possibility. The time in plan B is to help adjust to this possibility.

Using these is no guarantee that your will save your marriage. These plans WILL help you to cope with the loss and pain of the affair, and enable you to have a better relationship with yourself and with others, whether it be with the current spouse, a future spouse, or future "friends".


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Lil] #28168
11/25/10 03:45 AM
11/25/10 03:45 AM
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Yay Lil... this was an excellent post! Does this site have a "notable posts" type section like they do on MB? If they do, this one should definitely be added to it.


Forever grateful to www.marriagebuilders.com!
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: princessmeggy] #57736
01/24/11 11:10 PM
01/24/11 11:10 PM
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Is Dr Harley condoning sex with a wayward spouse?

SAA page 75 reads:

Plan A: avoid angry outbursts, disrespect and demands at all cost.
Ask for compliance with the conditions of separation [from the OP]
Fill EN's if the WS will allow it.

So, yes. You could say that by 'implication' a BS is encouraged to have SF with a WS.

Using the same rule of thumb, you could say Dr H is saying give the WS money since financial support is an EN.
Or babysit the kids while WS is out boinking the OP since family commitment is an EN
Or talking to the WS about how their day with OP was since conversation is an EN
Or wash and iron WS's best shirt for their date with OP since domestic support is an EN
Then there are Affection, honesty and openness, admiration, recreational companionship and physical attractiveness, all of which could be used wrongly, and actually HELP a WS in the affair.

Wisdom dictates than not all things are benificial to the BS or the WS for that fact, if it doesnt make the marriage a more appealing choice than the affair. Yes, do fill the EN's as much as possible, but never in a way that makes the affair easy on the WS. Always remember that there is a carrot and stick in plan A.

Be the best spouse you can be

Be the fun/attractive/more desirable choice

Protect marital assets

Protect your children

Do not shield the WS from the consequences of the affair

Have no expectations

Know you can only control yourself


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Lil] #57825
01/25/11 01:24 AM
01/25/11 01:24 AM
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JimK Offline OP
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When discussing the implementation of plan A, a lot of people are unsure of this 'meeting the spouse's emotional needs' line. The easy answer is that yes, Dr. Harley encourages a betrayed spouse to meet the emotional needs of a wayward spouse during Plan A.

But there's much more to it than that.

1. You only meet emotional needs that you are comfortable meeting, and are willing to commit to for the duration of the marriage (policy of joint agreement).

2. You only meet emotional needs that your WS is willing to allow you to meet, in the way that they would like you to meet them (again---you also need to be on board for this... policy of joint agreement).


To understand the MB stuff, you really need to understand the full context of the plan. It's not just a list of emotional needs. You need to understand about the giver and taker (there's probably a lizard in there too...), the policy of joint agreement, the rule of protection, the rule of time, etc...

One other thing. It's great when Plan A actually works to end an affair. But that doesn't happen in too many of the cases I've seen (I'd say definitely less than 10%). Plan A is the setup for Plan B. Affairs die. What you do during the time it takes to die will determine your chances for recovery. Your best shot is to leave your WS with good memories of someone who was willing to work on the marriage (Plan A), but it also requires you to remove yourself from the toxic environment of an affair (Plan B) well in advance of you being ready to throw the towel and initiating divorce.



The former MB poster known as "K"
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: JimK] #57961
01/25/11 04:50 AM
01/25/11 04:50 AM
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Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
I've come to think that Plan A - when executed to end an Affair or to coax a spouse out of withdrawal, is about becoming the best spouse possible. The goal is to become someone who is capable of meeting another person's needs, being safe and pleasant and loving/caring.

Whether the wayward/walkaway spouse returns, the Plan Aer has benefited, by becoming a better person. They can learn how to meet another's needs, they can learn the importance of meeting needs, they can learn to be loving in way their spouse understands, as opposed to ways that make them feel comfortable. They can also learn to self care - about their own boundaries.

And really - the choice of the W/WA spouse is theirs. One cannot control another's behaviors or choices, one can only make themselves a desirable choice.

I'd hate for a Betrayed Spouse/Left Behind Spouse to enter into a Plan A with the goal of winning back their spouse. Because that just may not happen. It CAN happen, and from what I've seen Plan A is a good way to help it happen, but ultimately the choice to return belongs to the one leaving.

If a BS/LBS enters Plan A with the goal of changing their spouse, then if they fail they may blame themselves for not doing enough. If they succeed, then they run the risk of falling into old behaviors that created the first marriage, because the 'goal' has been achieved.

Both dangerous paths to take.

Last edited by Vibrissa; 01/25/11 04:53 AM. Reason: middle paragraph was missing... bleh for editing

Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Vibrissa] #58037
01/25/11 11:54 AM
01/25/11 11:54 AM
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JimK Offline OP
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Vibrissa,

I think of it in the reverse. Of course this is done to win your spouse back. That's the whole point. It's unlikely that someone will think that if they do this they've got a 100% chance of having it work—when a marriage has hit this state, it's in a pretty dire situation. Plan A and Plan B are strategies to cope with an affair while it's active, in order for a BS to set up the best possible environment for a recovery. Because as you state, you can't make a WS do anything. They're going to have to progress through the affair on their own (unless they'll do counseling). But a large majority of affairs will end within a year or two of discovery—and these plans help set up an opportunity for the WS to come back to the betrayed spouse post-affair.

Plan A and Plan B are hard to do. But nothing like recovery...

The good side effect of these plans are that they are a time for the BS to grow as a person, and to start learn good marital behaviors. Plan B is not only a protection phase, but it's a recovery phase as well. If the affair doesn't end, the BS will eventually come to the point where they're ready to let go, divorce, and move on. And they'll be more ready for a relationship than someone who leaves a marriage immediately and starts on the dating circuit soon after.


The former MB poster known as "K"
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: JimK] #58389
01/25/11 08:07 PM
01/25/11 08:07 PM
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crazed student Offline
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Such good posts!

I wish that the folks who seem to think that Plan A is nothing more than being a doormat would take a look at the wisdom here.


The artist formerly known as penaltykill
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: crazed student] #58417
01/25/11 08:44 PM
01/25/11 08:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Jim - I appreciate your thoughts and perspective. I agree - you do Plan A to persuade your spouse to come back. I think my point was more that one shouldn't see that as the only goal/ acceptable result. One way or the other, Plan A/B are multi-pronged with many benefits to whoever executes it.

My main point was that the skills one learns in Plan A are lifetime skills, they change the Plan Aer into a better person - which is a good thing! They will need those skills to have better relationships in the future, if that is with their spouse, or with someone else.

I agree Plan A is NOT plan doormat. There was/is a wonderful poster on MB who I have tons of respect for. Her Plan A was EMPOWERING for her. She maintained her boundaries, found her own personal strength, and became a better person through Plan a. The affair she was fighting still hasn't ended, but it was inspiring to watch her personal growth through a well executed Plan A and B - there was no doormat behavior. She was loving, caring and adamant about needing the affair to be over.


Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Vibrissa] #58424
01/25/11 08:51 PM
01/25/11 08:51 PM
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Gateway to the West
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Most BS's enter Plan A in hopes of "winning" the WS back. It's usually the only goal at the beginning. It's during the course of Plan A that IF they continue to study and learn, then end result becomes MORE than they anticipated or even hoped for. In the end, it's those students who survive and thrive no matter what the outcome of their marriage is...... wink

Not2fun


" If you couldn't change your partner when you were together, you sure aren't going to now that you aren't together..." Words of the teacher of the court mandated parenting class...and the ONE thing that stuck out to me!!!
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Not2fun] #58558
01/26/11 01:34 AM
01/26/11 01:34 AM
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smile to you all...

Exactly!


The former MB poster known as "K"
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: JimK] #58559
01/26/11 01:41 AM
01/26/11 01:41 AM
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I agree Jim. This thread should be required reading for any betrayed spouse dealing with the multitude of emotions and planning as to what to do. Well, maybe after a few days.

Larry


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Larry] #198738
01/19/12 12:21 AM
01/19/12 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: kayla
I figured that I'd start this discussion in T-Dome because that's where it will end up anyway, as there are some very strong ANTI feelings about it.

I have never considered Plan A as to the benefit of the wayward spouse.

Consider this: when a betrayed spouse first finds out what is the TYPICAL state of mind?

It is likely one of two tracks -

1. confidence enough to say I DON'T DESERVE THIS and get the hell out! This person recognizes that they've been a good enough spouse to warrant honor and respect and won't take the abuse that infidelity is.
2. inadequacy, self-doubt, and remembering all of the emotional withdrawals over the years. Sometimes this person has been deliberately and intentionally gaslighted by the wayward spouse but for whatever reason, they do not see themselves in a position of laying down conditions or taking a stand.

Plan A is ideal for the #2 person.

Here is the primary problem with Plan A as it is taught. The concept is incomplete. Plan A's primary purpose is to help the victim of infidelity stand up and say I deserve better. It is designed to be an intentional process, not a doormat process. But the way people typically read it, they do not see this - and they behave Plan Doormat. I believe this is the cause of the very strong opinions against Plan A.

But consider this. Plan A behavior must be accompanied by some strong mental toughness - being your best self, working your personal plan rather than living in reaction is the only way someone who has lived Plan Doormat is going to recognize the balance between strength/self-respect and behavior where that self-critical part of the brain that somewhere cries I guess I deserved this shuts up and recognizes NO! I don't deserve this. This critical point is where someone is able to execute the prescribed Plan A and Plan B steps. The kind where Plan A only lasts a few days or weeks at a maximum - not months or years on end.

The best Plan A/B bios I've read sometimes took a while of Plan A to help the betrayed spouse realize who they are and what they truly deserve out of a spouse and the status quo is no longer tolerable. I could start naming names of the women who NEEDED more time in Plan A because they simply weren't ready to accept that they were strong enough to live without the man! But then there'd be one more and then one more stand up and say - Plan A is something I NEEDED to do. I can't count them all that have had this transformation during a prolonged Plan A. I'm sorry that it took them that long!

Others effectively saw that they deserved better from the get-go and kicked the jerk out and went immediately dark - LadyLongLegs comes to mind. She was a rare woman who already knew she deserved fidelity and had done NOTHING to deserve the ill-treatment by her husband.

Confidence doesn't grow in an unconfident person without strategy. Plan A and Plan B provide that strategy and would only be more effective if some mental toughness training were injected right from the get-go. Unfortunately Harley doesn't have that component explicitly spelled out in his program. Without this, Plan A will fail a large number of individuals trying to incorporate it.


The Merits Of Plan A


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Lil] #241260
06/19/12 03:00 AM
06/19/12 03:00 AM
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Lil Offline

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Originally Posted By: Looking4
First, Marriage Builders' (MB) Plan A is not Plan Doormat. A true Plan A does not allow the wayward spouse (WS) to do whatever s/he wants without consequence and anyone who implies that doesn't know what Plan A is.

Along with other prescribed acts, Plan A clearly states the betrayed spouse (BS) is "To insist that the wayward spouse end the affair should not be made with the threat of punishment ("I'm make you suffer if you don't end it"), but rather with the simple fact that it's the most painful experience you've ever had in your life, and if the affair is not ended, your relationship must end with either a separation or divorce."

Plan A is not being wishy washy, mamby pamby, needy, clingy, insecure, or under-valuing yourself. It is about being the best spouse you can be for your spouse AND making it clear that you will be in only an exclusive relationship with your spouse. It includes making clear what your boundaries are and what your actions will be if your boundaries are breached.

You say you're familiar with MB, Drowning, but for those who don't know Plan A is, please don't mistake it for other plans, projects, or philosophies. You can learn its definition and read a discussion about it on MA here -- http://www.marriageadvocates.com/ubbthre..._the_f#Post3726

But you're pretty certain the A is over, Drowning, and what you're looking for is how to go about recovering your M. Of course whether or not your W decides to join you in that recovery is up to her.

When I finally accepted that I could have no expectations when it came to improving our M, that was a big moment for me. Adopt and embrace this mentality as quickly as you can.

Do all that you can and have no expectations.

Drowning, if you want to try to recover your M and have a healthy marriage, before you tell her she's either "all in or all out," you better make sure you're the best option and worth committing "all in" for.

You said your wife filled out the MB Emotional Needs Questionnaire (ENQ) under protest. So she didn't enjoy it. Whatever. The fact is that she did it, right?

Now, what are you doing with the information she provided in that?

FWIW, I'm a woman and I filled out an ENQ within a couple of weeks of Discovery Day (D-day). It took my H two years after D-day to fill it out, so I was guessing at his ENs for quite a while. If you know what her ENs are, you're ahead of many.

Are you working to meet her ENs and meet them in the ways that she wants them to be met?

I ask because when I read your list of things that you think are weird, I can see why that raised red flags. But it could also be deeper insight into her ENs. Maybe not, but maybe? For example:

* Quit birth control this month -- could this be about Family Commitment (FC)?
* Look at houses in her home town as a cottage -- maybe also about FC as in having connection to her biological family; or Domestic Support (DS) as in the chance to create a second home for the family to all share in, especially if it needs all of the work that you're referring to. Maybe it's as much a family project to her as it is a neat place for y'all to escape to.
* Worried about money all the time we are fine! -- "fine" is something that lies in the mind of the beholder. Financial Support (FS) might be very important to her. In my M, my H is often much more wound up about money then I am. I often think we're fine while he's re-checking Quicken over and over.

Regarding contact with an old boyfriend on Facebook (FB), I'm assuming you're friends with your W on FB. You should be able to see who her friends are. Tell her with whom you are not comfortable being her friend.

Having contact with an ex raises eyebrows around here because we've seen the pattern. She may not feel that it's inappropriate and because you felt that way yourself, how is she to know now that it bothers you? You have to tell her what you need. Do not expect her to know.

How often do you talk about your marriage (M)?

Have you sat down across from her and shared with her the deep devastation that her A had on you? Have you clearly stated what you need to have in order for you to stay in the M with her?

Have you identified what your boundaries are, determined how you will implement them, defined them clearly to her, and then enforced them?

I did my best to meet my H's ENs (I was guessing what they were, remember?), I removed almost all LBs, I was living the Policy of Radical Honesty, and my H still would not commit to working on our M. It was an unhappy and crappy M before the affair and after the affair and yet my H wouldn't change.

Meeting the ENs and removing the LBs made it easier for my H to want to stay with me, but I know it was finally the identifying and then consistently communicating and enforcing my boundaries that got my H to see that we need to do some serious work on our relationship if we were going to remain married.

So when you ask how can you get her to "buy in" to a plan, first, you can't. That's her choice. No expectations, remember?

But you can come up with the things that you need from her in order for you to stay married to her. You present those things to her and you tell her what you will do if she follows through or doesn't follow through on those things.

You wrote:
Originally Posted By: Drowning
MB the generic advice at this point would be to ask her "Is the ideal situation for you to love your childs father" and then have them come find that.

I did that and she said I do love you. I don't need someone to tell me that.

Did you ask her if she thinks the ideal situation is for you to love your child's mother?

Finally, this post has gone on way to long (I have too much to write!), but I was coached by Steve Harley and here are some quick bullet points I got from him for you to consider:

* Do not focus on the plan (like whether or not to use MB, MC, books, etc.) but on the goal and work with your wife to find a solution.

* Your W is responsible for you to be in love with her, just as you are responsible for your W to be in love with you. You can't make yourself fall in love with your W. She has to make you. Just as you have to make her.

There is an exception to this, however. Even if one is perfect and doing everything right such as meeting every EN perfectly, not LBing, perfectly applying the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA), etc., choice is still involved. And that is the choice of the recipient. The recipient has to choose to let one's actions in -- they can choose to shut out someone who is doing things perfectly, to shut out that person's love. Or they can choose to accept them.

* It's not just the changing of behaviors that are needed to repair a broken M. (Which is what many MCs focus on.) It's the changing of beliefs.

If you don't think disrespectful judgments (DJs) are a bad thing, if someone makes you aware of them you can change your behavior temporarily to stop the DJs. But if you don't change your belief that DJs are bad, your behavior will eventually reflect that belief and the DJs will return.

So, if you want your W to stop a destructive behavior then you need to not only tell her what that LB is but why and how it hurts you. Hopefully she will see and believe that doing such an LB is a bad thing and will choose to change a belief and thus change her behavior. Or she can choose not to and keep her behavior.

Until one's belief system is corrected (and thus the behavior is legitimate and going to stick), you "need to be a bit guarded," according to Steve.


Here


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Lil] #264721
11/15/12 08:38 AM
11/15/12 08:38 AM
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Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
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Originally Posted By: Mark1952
The point of Harley's Plan A in fighting an affair is to show a willingness to address those things that the WS might have in the way of complaints about the BS. And I think there is a distinction between a WAS and a WS. One is moving away from the LBS while the other is moving toward the affair partner. The psychological distinction is pretty profound to me in that the WAS is trying to get away from the person who has become his or her source of unhappiness while the WS is gravitating toward a strong source of happiness/strong emotional response bordering at least on the obsessive or even addictive.

Harley's way of approaching an affair is to show a willingness to overcome those negative aspects of the relationship and that a willingness is there to provide those things the WS needs from the relationship in order to be attracted to it.

But at the same time, that does not mean being alright with a continuing affair or accepting it as something that will be a part of the marriage going forward. During an affair, the WS is not the enemy of the marriage, the affair is. Things can be done to make the affair less attractive to the WS while at the same time making the BS more attractive and though following them around begging, whining, pleading and constantly talking about the relationship is not only nonproductive but damaging to the way the WS sees the BS, if the BS simply acts as if the marriage over, it shows no indication to the WS that they even want to engage in the relationship.

It does not require being OK with the affair to show that you are the better person as opposed to the affair partner. It also shows a willingness to change to eliminate the activities and actions that originally made the WS unhappy to begin with.

Also keep in mind that the premise of Plan A is that it is to be short term followed by total separation to accomplish two distinct goals. One it forces the WS to get all needs met by the affair partner. This is because in most cases at the beginning of an affaior the WS really has no intention of walking away from the marriage. Most are quite happy with the idea of getting needs met by two people. Most often, the BS meets some of the needs qquite well or they would have left long ago. But the human tendency to foucs on what we are missing can cause a strong desire to keep getting a specific one or two needs met by the affair parnter.

The second reason for Harley's Plan B as he calls the separation is to stop the affiar from being shoeved in the face of the BS while the affair burns out. In most cases this will happen within two years of discovery and in more cases than not, the WS will look for place to land. If the WS has made it clear that they are willing to work at reconciliation depende3nt upon the WS doing specific things in order to be considered a candidate for reconciliation, the WS will perhaps choose to try to repair the damage and learn to be more protective of the marriage and the BS going forward.

Let me ask why it is assumed that the idea of GAL, acting happy when clearly you should be devastated, showing signs of moving on with life as if all is well and throwing spending less than enough time to even maintain the relationship rather than showing it to be viable through interaction shows the WS that the marriage is still desired or can be repaired?

I understand the concept, I think. I work with horses and horses just love to play the come catch me if you can game with their owners. There is no way a man on foot can run after a horse and get control of it in an open field. So the solution is often to act as if you are uninterested in the horse and seem to be doing something else or looking away from them. Very often the horse wonders what you are up to and comes near to you to see just what your intent is.

And THAT is the key to making the process work because if when the horse shows up you are angry, push them away and make them uncomfortable, they will be less likely to come the next time you want them to. If you make it fun for the horse after he comes to you, the next time, he will come sooner and more enthusiastically than if you make it harder for him to approach either by showing aggression toward him or make his time with you less than enjoyable.

You might even be able to lure a horse into coming through jealousy by showing affection and giving attention to another horse that lets you approach. But that same jealousy can also indicate to the horse that you are willing to let him play his game and will simply find someone else to play with. The trouble is that the horse might also become aggressive toward you or the other horse and still not come the next time you call him.

Harley's Plan A plays into the reward system in the brain by providing a stimulus that supplies good emotional response in your presence and makes the affair a source of stress and anxiety. The human brain in love does not make choices and decisions based on logic but on pure emotion. That emotion exists in the amygdala where logic has no space and only reaction and response reside. It isn't a decision but merely a response and if repeated sufficiently it can cause the WS to become the pursuer by feeding them what they need and and if the affair is more stress and effort to get the same response they move away from the affair and toward the BS.

It is also a balancing act since pursuing, begging, pleading and acting like you are willing to accept the affair is also counterproductive.

Original Here

Last edited by Lil; 11/15/12 07:23 PM. Reason: fixed url and Marks age :)

AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Lil] #264767
11/15/12 04:13 PM
11/15/12 04:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,072
SW Chicago 'burbs
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No wonder I feel ten years older...


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: PR: Marriage Builders Plan A: the first steps of battling an affair [Re: Mark1952] #346096
05/01/14 08:05 AM
05/01/14 08:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Lil Offline

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AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


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