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Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: OTS12] #120093
06/12/11 11:08 PM
06/12/11 11:08 PM
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OTS12 Offline
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Note: Mongo is a fighter. Bad Mongo.

Little setback today. Lizard took control. Moving along...


Trying my hardest.
Learning every day.
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: OTS12] #120151
06/13/11 01:00 AM
06/13/11 01:00 AM
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Monterey, CA
Fiddler Offline
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Something happened that caught you by surprise.


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Fiddler] #120260
06/13/11 04:35 AM
06/13/11 04:35 AM
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Not exactly surprised. Just frustrated.

Pushed a little too hard, then backed off.


Trying my hardest.
Learning every day.
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: OTS12] #120267
06/13/11 04:58 AM
06/13/11 04:58 AM
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Fiddler Offline
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Something like this has happened before; the outcome was expected, and you were hoping it would turn out differently this time.

Help me understand what "pushed too hard" means.


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Fiddler] #120308
06/13/11 08:37 AM
06/13/11 08:37 AM
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I feel like I'm hijacking this thread. I'll PM you


Trying my hardest.
Learning every day.
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: OTS12] #121070
06/14/11 03:42 PM
06/14/11 03:42 PM
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Monterey, CA
Fiddler Offline
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A threadjack? (??) here on MA?!? shocked The horror! eek


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Fiddler] #126199
06/25/11 03:26 PM
06/25/11 03:26 PM
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believer Offline
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^^^^^For Broken Soul.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #133184
07/11/11 02:24 PM
07/11/11 02:24 PM
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thank you for this. especially today.


may came home with a smooth round stone
as small as a world and as large as alone. -- e. e. cummings
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: ohmy_marie] #133255
07/11/11 04:52 PM
07/11/11 04:52 PM
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Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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You are welcome, ohmy_marie.


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #149773
08/23/11 08:03 PM
08/23/11 08:03 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Edmond Dantes Offline
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I'm having a challenge calming my Lizard and I would appreciate any ideas.

My wife and I began living separately a year ago. Until recently we had been nesting our teenage girls. Last month we both got our own places not far from one another.

For about six months before we began nesting the girls, my wife carried on an affair. After we separated she told me he ended it but she would have liked it to continue. For the last year, I believe they have been 'friends'. He is bi-polar and unmedicated. She wants to get in touch with her artistic self and she sees her relationship with him as ideal because she says she doesn't want a "real" relationship with anyone and he is not fit for anything other than a 'creative friendship' with benefits.

Her new house is right next to his. This freaks my Lizard out no end.

In the months prior to our moves we were making progress and I felt she had stopped moving away and we were starting to develop a new friendship. I would always let her contact me and I heard from her almost everyday. A lot of the anger was gone on her end and I was feeling more comfortable also.

At the time of the move she asked me several times to come and see her new place and even though I told her I was not comfortable with her 'neighborhood', it seemed important to her that I come over. Eventually I did.

Since then I have avoided even driving past her place and I was doing ok. I was content to let her contact me and I was kind and compassionate when we interacted.

A couple weeks ago I had to drive past her place 9 o'clock on a Saturday night to pick up one of my daughters from a friends place just down the road from her. Sure enough, as I drive by I see her come out of his kitchen. Since then I've been set right back. Sick feeling in my stomach, irrationally angry, wanting to avoid seeing her, obsessing about her and what she's thinking and doing instead of focusing on me and my happiness etc.

She's noticed my distancing and she's also now contacting me much less frequently. I want to calm my Lizard and keep up what was working but I feel resentment building and I keep coming back to the idea of just closing the door on her.

I don't believe she is happy. I think their relationship is more of the chain smoking, day dreaming, angst and laughter kind of thing (Wife was only a closet smoker before). I think she believes this is how creative people live. Myself, I'm developing some peace. I'm accepting things as they are better than ever and finding some contentment with myself and the people and things around me. Quite possibly this seems boring to my wife, idk.

I do feel us drifting apart more and more though and I'm concerned if I just protect my Lizard and stay distant we will never re-connect and I'll be the one walking away.

Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Edmond Dantes] #150291
08/25/11 12:27 AM
08/25/11 12:27 AM
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LadyGrey Offline
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Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
I do feel us drifting apart more and more though and I'm concerned if I just protect my Lizard and stay distant we will never re-connect and I'll be the one walking away.


I sounds to me like she is experimenting with who she wants to be next.

I seriously doubt that has much of anything to do with you.

I have to admit though that I feel hugely jealous of her. I took the other path.

Perhaps this is a time when you can experiment with who you want to be next.

Can't help you with the lizard thing -- my Liz lives in a near constant state of absolute panic so I'm not one who has a clue.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: LadyGrey] #150304
08/25/11 01:16 AM
08/25/11 01:16 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Edmond Dantes Offline
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I appreciate the perspective LadyGrey. It might make you smile to know that your words did remind me of a good way to soothe my Lizard that I had been temporarily blind to.

I also think my wife is experimenting with who she wants to be next. Your observation that her process likely has little to do with me reminded me of a couple of the Four Agreements namely, 'Don't take anything personally' and 'Don't make assumptions'. I find those little pieces of wisdom comforting right now.

I think I get why you would feel jealous of my wife. Just a gentle observation though, I think her Lizzy is just as freaked as yours and she seems quite scared and lost.

I respect her courage in striking out this way though it doesn't appear to be be bringing her any happiness. We actually laugh together now when she repeats her new mantra 'I'll get through this'. I do want her to find herself, I just wish there was a less painful way for her to do it. Everyone is hurting very much, including our beautiful girls.

I think I am getting better at using this time to decide who I want to be next too. I've had trouble with authenticity, honesty and perfectionism and I've learned a lot about myself during this time of ashes. I imagine I'll continue to do so. My vision of who I am and who I want to be gets clearer all the time. Al has been a great teacher.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Edmond Dantes] #150372
08/25/11 02:42 AM
08/25/11 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
Just a gentle observation though, I think her Lizzy is just as freaked as yours and she seems quite scared and lost.


Scared and lost but not trapped, or, more accurately, trapped by her own hand.

Feeling trapped -- no BEING trapped (I tried and failed to be politically correct, ho hum, what else is new) is suffocating.

The option to be that other person, the one I thought I was and always planned on being again, is foreclosed.

I have always wanted to write a book. I made a good start when we were separated -- from all accounts, very funny. I knew before and I know now I will never write a book while I am married to my husband. That crucial piece of me, the thing in me that I personally honor the most, is dead by my own hand.

You can tell me all day long that I can still do that while I am married if I will set "boundaries", blah, blah, blah, and I will tell you you are WRONG.

This marriage sucks the creativity right out of me. Getting through the day is cause for celebration.

I have no idea why I made this choice. Probably because at the end of the day, I cannot let my family down.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Edmond Dantes] #150380
08/25/11 02:58 AM
08/25/11 02:58 AM
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Posts: 908
Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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Sorry I've been so busy with my family, grandkids. Haven't had time to get back to you, Edmond Dantes. Thanks, LadyGrey, for being there. I will get there but maybe not till Friday.

I did get off a quick response to Poet1. Patience!


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: LadyGrey] #150392
08/25/11 03:47 AM
08/25/11 03:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 140
Ontario, Canada
Edmond Dantes Offline
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Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
Just a gentle observation though, I think her Lizzy is just as freaked as yours and she seems quite scared and lost.


Scared and lost but not trapped, or, more accurately, trapped by her own hand.

Feeling trapped -- no BEING trapped (I tried and failed to be politically correct, ho hum, what else is new) is suffocating.

The option to be that other person, the one I thought I was and always planned on being again, is foreclosed.

I have always wanted to write a book. I made a good start when we were separated -- from all accounts, very funny. I knew before and I know now I will never write a book while I am married to my husband. That crucial piece of me, the thing in me that I personally honor the most, is dead by my own hand.

You can tell me all day long that I can still do that while I am married if I will set "boundaries", blah, blah, blah, and I will tell you you are WRONG.

This marriage sucks the creativity right out of me. Getting through the day is cause for celebration.

I have no idea why I made this choice. Probably because at the end of the day, I cannot let my family down.


You feel your marriage has cost you your creativity and in remaining married you have betrayed yourself. From your words I have a sense for how furious you are with yourself and the depth of your grief at the loss of something so precious to you.

You believe you will never be creative or the person you wanted to be married to your husband. You believe this so strongly and you are afraid I won't accept the correctness of your belief. You have chosen to stay with your husband at great personal cost and you don't know why you have done this to yourself. You think probably it's because you don't want to let your family down. Am I understanding you, GreyLady?

Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Edmond Dantes] #150408
08/25/11 06:14 AM
08/25/11 06:14 AM
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Manup Offline
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Edmund

Like you, I would trigger going to my wifes home, my ex home so to speak. I dont have a choice as my children are young, but now I only ever go there to pick them up. I make my wife pick them up when she has to and I take another way to school so I dont drive by. I figure why do it to yourself.

I protect my boundaries and respect hers. I no longer protect her though from the reality of the situation.

It was almost ordained that as you drove by , she was walking out of the other house. Perhaps you were meant to see that. What's it telling you Edmund?

Your instinct is probably guiding you to your path, perhaps if your fighting that, the lizard is freaking out.


I think when we fight ourselves, thats when the resentment sets in like cancer. To me thats the stuff that burns into you.Its the thing no matter how hard you try, your children sense. Is resentment linked to entitlement? I think as a controlling man, seeing your control move away to another man ( we call them co workers, unmedicated bipolar, rat meat, but no matter how we try to diminish their stature, our wives still chose to pursue them ), breeds resentment. So perhaps resentment is about loss of control over another person.

If you removed your wife from your frame of reference, what would you be doing now?


Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Manup] #150797
08/26/11 11:10 AM
08/26/11 11:10 AM
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Manup Offline
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well today I found out my wifes om has moved into the family home. In fact has been there for a couple of months already.

Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Manup] #150829
08/26/11 01:36 PM
08/26/11 01:36 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Edmond Dantes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Manup
well today I found out my wifes om has moved into the family home. In fact has been there for a couple of months already.


Hey Manup,

I can imagine how I'd feel in your place and it's not good. How are you doing?


Dantes

Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Edmond Dantes] #150835
08/26/11 01:59 PM
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Manup Offline
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In one way its a relief knowing the reality of the situation

Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Manup] #150839
08/26/11 02:09 PM
08/26/11 02:09 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Edmond Dantes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Manup
In one way its a relief knowing the reality of the situation


I can see that. I imagine after all the denials in the beginning you probably felt gaslighted for the longest time. In moments like this I've found it helpful to remind myself to breathe deeply and make an effort not to resist my feelings, whatever they may be. How will you calm your Lizard?

Peace,

Dantes

Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Edmond Dantes] #150856
08/26/11 02:29 PM
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Manup Offline
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I think I just need time to put it into some sort of perspective. I promised myself at the beginning of this mess, that no matter how bad it got, I would work to be better and not retaliate, so I think Im going to be quiet.

Thanks for being here

Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Manup] #150898
08/26/11 03:36 PM
08/26/11 03:36 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Edmond Dantes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Manup
I think I just need time to put it into some sort of perspective. I promised myself at the beginning of this mess, that no matter how bad it got, I would work to be better and not retaliate, so I think Im going to be quiet.



Respect.

Be well, friend.

Dantes

Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Manup] #150949
08/26/11 06:09 PM
08/26/11 06:09 PM
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LadyGrey Offline
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Originally Posted By: Manup
well today I found out my wifes om has moved into the family home. In fact has been there for a couple of months already.


Possibly explains her anger.

She may need to cast you in the role of Attila the Husband to be OK with moving her affair partner into the marital home with minor children there.

Perhaps your lizard will get comfort from the idea that her behavior truly has little to do with you.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: LadyGrey] #150967
08/26/11 06:44 PM
08/26/11 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Probably because at the end of the day, I cannot let my family down.


What is it you think your family wants, needs or would like for you to do or be?


You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end which you can never afford to lose with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Re: Topic 1: "Friend your Lizard(s)" - Building Trust [Re: Coach] #150994
08/26/11 08:03 PM
08/26/11 08:03 PM
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Manup Offline
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My family - I think I have to split that between my children and my wife.

The children need me to be their constant father, the part of their life that doesn't change.

My wife - I dont know the answer. I would say she just wants to / has replaced me. Makes sense she constantly provokes me to get a response and is angry I dont take the bait.

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