Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 3 guests, and 38 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
 Trending Topics(Posts)
1.How to deconstruct a marriage.0
2.I am Sick, I am Sad, and I am needing some support.0
3.SIHW is back and Dealing with issues....0
4.looking for some support0
5.Social Networking Sites and Infidelity0
6.Signs of Infidelity0
7.The Difference Between Cheating and Infidelity?0
8.Not really sure how to survive0
9.The Five Big Lies That Keep You From Changing0
10.Pregnant and getting put out of the house by my husband0
*By replies in last 2 weeks.
In The Media(Posts)
Woman urges NC lawmakers to end child marriage: For her it was a ‘life sentence’3
COVID-19 and the Increased Likelihood of Affairs3
Does anyone remember this story?3
Validation to find-win-win slutions2
Things men want3
These Are The Signs You're Dating A Narcissist3
Girlfriend's 'controlling' list of 22 rules for boyfriend goes viral: 'She sounds crazy'9
What Divorced Men Wish They Had Done Differently In Their Marriages7
Alienation of Affection / Criminal Conversation9
Would you pay your ex a 'break-up fee'? - BBC3
more >>
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Revenge Dating [Re: Vibrissa] #64595
02/03/11 10:27 PM
02/03/11 10:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 242
F
futureunknown Offline
Member
futureunknown  Offline
Member
F
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 242
Originally Posted By: Vibrissa
And to adulterers, they feel divorced before they hop in the sack. Thats how most justify their adultery to themselves.

"The marriage is over."
"I don't love you."

How many times have we heard of a WS uttering these phrases.

Feelings do not justify adultery. If so where does the grey line tip from 'ok' adultery to 'not ok' adultery? Who is the arbiter?

If it's ok for you to determine that the marriage is 'over' because of your feelings, then does not that same logic justify the wayward spouse? They feel the marriage is over, or they wouldn't be with someone else (for the most part).

Quote:
I agree with you that the moment I said "I do", I was bound to a vow. That was not a legal thing for me, but rather a deep personal commitment.


So basically your vow was for as long as you felt like it. When you no longer feel like it, you absolve yourself of the vow. For you that may be enough. It isn't enough for me. Too much like a typical adulterer's thinking for my taste, and having suffered due to the warped thinking that adultery produces, I'd rather stay as far away from that thinking as possible, even if there is a safe 'grey' area.

I can't base my actions solely on my feelings. Feelings are fickle. They change, and the worst part about that is that we perceive them to be permanent. We think the way we feel now is how we will always feel, when that is rarely the case. I don't believe my feelings are a safe barometer against which I can justify breaking a vow I have made.


Yeah, I've had those same words uttered to me too, but they are particularly hollow when we're living in the same house, raising our kids together, combined finances, etc, and the wayward affair was all happening in secret until I discovered it. Saying those words then is complete and utter BS. For the one who leaves the marriage to have any integrity at all, they should tell their spouse they want the marriage to end, do their best to get the finances in order, file for divorce, move out and establish a totally separate life, allow time to pass to let the marriage die with some amount of dignity, and only then consider the possibility of dating. As we all know, that's not how it usually works, and that's definitely not what happened to me.

My vow was meant for life, and it wasn't my choice to abandon it. Nothing in my vow mentioned divorce, so divorce doesn't absolve me of it. That's what makes it such a horrible situation. I can't live under my vow forever while my wife has left and is living a separate life. Divorce is a totally legal term to me. When I finally reached the point of leaving my marriage behind, I had already been without my wife emotionally for several years, and living completely separately for two years, while still trying to fix myself and my marriage, but eventually I had to let it go. I understand why some would want that legal declaration before moving on, but it just doesn't mean anything to me.

Re: Revenge Dating [Re: futureunknown] #64628
02/03/11 11:12 PM
02/03/11 11:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline
Member
Vibrissa  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
I get what you're saying.

Quote:
For the one who leaves the marriage to have any integrity at all, they should tell their spouse they want the marriage to end, do their best to get the finances in order, file for divorce, move out and establish a totally separate life, allow time to pass to let the marriage die with some amount of dignity, and only then consider the possibility of dating.


I whole-heartedly and completely agree with this. If it is over, end it. The cake-eating waffling is disgusting, offensive and abusive. Few things anger me as much as that.

I know what you are saying. I understand it. I hope I never have to reach that place, and if I ever do, my current views and words may go right out the window. It is one thing to say what you WOULD do, often it is very different to walk that path.

I can see why you have chosen as you have, and I can see other situations where a similar choice could be made (those in Catholic countries where divorce isn't allowed, for example). For me, for my own piece of mind, I would need the dissolution of the union to be 'official', and then some.

Sometimes you think you're 'over it' when, really, you're only going through one of the steps along the path to healing. I don't know that just the divorce being final is enough for some. There needs to be time to heal, to mourn, to rebuild the self. That is why I would advise a close friend in this situation to err on the side of waiting, for their own benefit.

Sometimes after a relationship is over we seek healing through another person, but I don't think we can truly heal that way, it's just a bandage over a gaping wound.

That's the risk you run, if you date before the marriage is over. Often, there just hasn't been enough time for the requisite healing.



Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: Revenge Dating [Re: Vibrissa] #64680
02/04/11 12:21 AM
02/04/11 12:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,072
SW Chicago 'burbs
Mark1952 Offline
Board of Directors
Mark1952  Offline
Board of Directors
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,072
SW Chicago 'burbs
My wife said our marriage was over...

She wouldn't say that today and in fact has thanked me that I didn't just let her go or decide to find someone else myself.

The problem with feelings is that they can and do change based on circumstances. Even in early recovery I sometimes thought we were done. The problem is encountered when you make choices and decisions that have only feelings as their basis.

Three guys were on a business trip. One was from Marketing, one was a hardware engineer and one was a software developer. The Marketing guy was driving and as they traveled down the Interstate, the car suddenly started making a noise like whop-whop-whop and listed to one side, signs of a flat tire.

The Marketing guy pulled over, shut the car off and threw up his hands. "We need a new car," he said.

The Hardware guy interrupted him, "No we don't. We have spare and a jack in the trunk of the car. We'll unload our stuff, dig out the jack and the spare and change the right front, put everything away and try it for a while. If that didn't fix it, we'll swap the right rear and try it again. We just have to go around the car clockwise until we find the right tire."

The Software guy had gotten out of the car and was leaning against the side. Looking off into the distance he commented, "There's a Starbucks. Why don't we go get a cup of coffee, leave it alone for a while and see if it fixes itself."

A new one won't fix it. Unless you are ready to walk away, this won't be much help.

Throwing random solutions at it won't fix it most of the time unless you happen to guess right the first time.

Leaving it unresolved ain't ever gonna fix it.

That is why getting input for others who have been through it before can be of so much value in helping you make the choice.

Marriages have been broken beyond repair but have come back from the brink of extinction. Best to know it is over before you trade it in for a new set of problems. Processing what happened and whether or not you had a part in the failure of the relationship can mean a lot when it comes time to fixing the next one, which is going to happen sooner or later.

Unless of course marriage only requires finding the right person and the rest happens by magic...

But then consider that you thought that was true the first time around and see where it got you.

I know a guy whose wife had an affair. It was already pretty much over when he found out about it, but his response was to decide to move on and find someone else. He had the misfortune of actually falling in love with another woman. They were scheduled to have their divorce preliminary on Tuesday and someone talked them into attending a seminar for marriages in crisis on Friday through Sunday.

Divorce delayed then canceled.

Today they work together to teach other couples how to improve their marriage and train others to do the same. Their children are still in an intact home.

Feelings change...


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: Revenge Dating [Re: Mark1952] #110420
05/24/11 09:40 AM
05/24/11 09:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Lil Offline OP

Member
Lil  Offline OP

Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
How to 'look' like your dating as a way to attract a WH without losing your integrity.

"Carol" MB 2003

ETA: Bum, the thread has vanished.
SO a rough outline of what she did was:


When hubby came to see the kids, The BW was all dressed up, and out the door she went. Actually, as I recall, she went to the library and read books, or WalMart for a coke.
She never actually DID anything untoward - but- she allowed her WH's imagination to run amok- it was brilliant.
She worked with a marriage coach - who would call her or text her...

In other words - she eventually tweaked his imagination so much that HE started to pursue HER (because he sensed she was no longer hanging around waiting for him to return)- and for awhile she was way too busy to be any more than briefly polite with WH before she had to "rush off" to make an "appointment with a friend".
Originally Posted By: Carol
He says he is calling from my house. I say I am parked along the side of the road taking the call (I was). He says he is going to go to EA's house and finish it with her. I tell him he does not have to do that...everyone needs friends. He says he has to do it, because he does not ever want me to worry about her. I say, whatever, but I am not telling you what to do (he said before that I am too controlling...actually he is just passive-aggressive and they all think the spouse is controlling even tho we might not be!) So we hang up.

The bit where she had a slinky dress and suitcase in the car for her WH to see was classic. The suitcase was empty, it was just sitting in the boot of the car with the kids overnight bags. When she opened it to get the kids bags out, the WS saw it. If he asked about where she was going, she would always be vague and just say "Out", or "With a friend". She always spoke the truth, but the WH being a trusting (not) as they are, would assume she was seeing a guy.

Tighten the thumbscrews of WH's PERCEPTION.

It's the perception that matters. you don't have to replicate Carol's incident - only her attitude!

She got a life. She was determined that anything he "saw" was going to truly be his reality, whether or not it was "real" when he saw it.

Last edited by lildoggie; 08/10/12 09:31 PM.

AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Revenge Dating [Re: Lil] #116313
06/05/11 12:01 AM
06/05/11 12:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Ace Offline
Advocate
Ace  Offline
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted By: lildoggie
How to 'look' like your dating as a way to attract a WH without losing your integrity.

"Carol" MB 2003


Interesting thread, lil. Not sure if I could pull off the mini-deceptions (even with the help of a coach). Oh HEY! That is an MB thread talking about MWD and DB.....could that "coach" be OUR Coach here now on MA? (??)


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: Revenge Dating [Re: Ace] #142414
08/04/11 01:39 AM
08/04/11 01:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Lil Offline OP

Member
Lil  Offline OP

Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Kayla
DMD - I think you miss the mark. It's NOT the revenge dating that recovers the marriage. It's the confidence.

A man does not need to violate his own personal morals by going out and finding some skank who will bed a married man. Or do you advocate LYING to her so that she'll play along in your revenge game, taking you seriously? Seriously? What's the body count up to now? You. The Children. The Wife. The OM's wife. And now an innocent bystander?

Seriously????

A man can be strong without doing that.

He can show his wife the door and let her know time's up. No begging, no fearing that she won't take him back. Everyone who ever recovers their marriage eventually reaches this state - that they don't have to be married that badly anymore.

But DMD - the dating - that's just sleazy to go the route you advocate.

Strong. Yes. Absolutely.

Cheating on the cheater? No WAY!


from here


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Revenge Dating [Re: Lil] #156914
09/13/11 04:56 PM
09/13/11 04:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 930
D
Don Man Don Offline
Member
Don Man Don  Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 930
I don't know if I would call it revenge as much as loneliness and sadness.

I was reading a thread and there was a statement that went something like this, When she talks to me, I stop what I am doing, look at her and I listen. That's a 180 for me.

WOW. Makes me wonder what it must be like to have been that lonely. To come home from work and want to talk about my day and be ignored. To want to be held but instead cry myself to sleep. And not be heard when I tried to explain my sadness. Would I jump at the opportunity to be loved by someone that wanted to show me love?

Is it "wrong" to want to be loved in a way that makes you feel good about yourself and the person you are with? Is it a woman's place to stay with a man that would rather kiss the bottle than her? How many times does she need to be kicked while she is down until she realizes that any other life is not an option?

I am sorry it is the way it is and that some are hurt and angry and do not open their eyes to how neglectful they were until it is to late. But at some point people realize if they want to be happy in a relationship they need to be with someone that wants to be with them. And it happens.

Re: Revenge Dating [Re: Lil] #156936
09/13/11 05:27 PM
09/13/11 05:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,821
flowmom Offline
Member
flowmom  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,821
I'm not sure if I've seen many cases of "revenge dating" in the time that I've spent on DB and MA. Nor have I seen many cases of people dating while there was a serious intention to reconcile.

What does happen sometimes is that the LBS/BS recognizes that the M is OVER (which it is once one person has broken vows and no longer acts married in any way). Once the LBS/BS detaches sufficiently and starts to move on with life including dating others...sometimes the WAS/WS turns around and seeks reconciliation. That process has nothing to do with revenge or manipulation. It's completely sincere on the part of the LBS/BS and it's based on reality, which is that one cannot be married by oneself even if one is holding a piece of paper that asserts one's legal rights as a married person. Once the LBS/BS has truly been "fired", it's over. In that case reconciliation really means starting from scratch after both people have abandoned the marriage and its commitments emotionally.

Originally Posted By: Marlowe
Engaging in self-destructive behaviors does not further that agenda, even if they do feel like they bring temporary relief. Putting one's self in a position to get tied down to unfit/unhealthy partners because that's the only pool available at the time falls on the same level as using alcohol or other mind-altering substances[1] to cope.
I have read the arguments many times that dating during separation is inherently self-destructive and/or limits one to undesirable partners. I have to say that my own observations of people IRL, on the forum, and my own experiences do not validate these assumptions. Separated people are hugely variable in their emotional health and levels of baggage and their relationships and ability to attract partners reflects that.


we: me44 + my husband Pookie :9: + S9 + D6
Re: Revenge Dating [Re: flowmom] #265079
11/17/12 02:36 AM
11/17/12 02:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Lil Offline OP

Member
Lil  Offline OP

Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Vittoria
I'm quickly injecting my view here, and yes without reading this whole thread.
My first post on this thread, after reading a part about encouraging 'dating', is the part that I referred to as disagreeing with.

I can see by skimming through that I'm not the only one who this does not make sense to.

1) Commit to attempting R or commit to D ..... do a fine job with one or the other.
If you are focused on rebuilding, that is where your focus will be, same with D.
There is less floundering back and forth....one plan, one goal at this time. (until more info tells you different)

2) Thoughts lead to feelings ...... if you are dating it is quite possible that you will
develop feelings for OP, and vice versa. EN's will be getting met.
You are now having an A of your own.

3) Vows, how important are they to you ....... the WS breaking those vows should not have any bearing on your commitment to them, unless your commitment was weak to begin with.

4) Head games ....... this tit for tat, 2 wrongs making a right, this is manipulation.
A spouse returning to the M from this manipulation is likely to return for the wrong reasons and R could be short lived.
Are they returning cuz they see a better alternative or are they returning cuz they think that some OP might have their spouse.
Recovery is hard, a sincere desire to rebuild the M with BS is a must.

5) Both spouses now need to deal with infidelities ..... both are hurt, feel betrayed.
Both now will have to deal with the guilt and shame of stepping outside of the M.

6) The kids ....... how does a BS show that adultery is a vile act if they themselves are stepping outside of the M???

7) Mixed message to WS ..... a WS can easily ask .... is the BS sincere about rebuilding if they are out dating OP.

These are the ones that I come up with off the top of my head.



Here


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Fiddler 

Newest Members
Love_Smacked, starfire, JoyfulMimi, bruers, shattered72
2048 Registered Users
Latest Topics(Posts)
Hearts Blessing4
Woman urges NC lawmakers to end child marriage: For her it was a ‘life sentence’3
63 Marriage Facts1
COVID-19 and the Increased Likelihood of Affairs3
Updates Divorce Stats4
no more rainbow members?9
BR - The Art of War - Sun Tzu5
Questions & Answers About Marriage---responses from 7-10 year old kids4
seeing new members on mobile version5
Return of the Goddess31
Community Information
2048Members
1Penalty Box
6Suspended

42

Forums
8500Topics
463376Posts
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.018s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 3.2360 MB (Peak: 3.4372 MB) Zlib enabled in php.ini Server Time: 2021-10-18 16:39:57 UTC