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Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #301026
06/10/13 06:44 AM
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Sorry it’s taken me so long to update this thread. I just found another missing piece.

We had a bit of a struggle a couple months ago when my H wanted to sign up for a clinical trial for an experimental drug. I asked him to check with his doctor who said to go for it if he is OK with the risks. It took a couple days but H finally brought home the paperwork detailing the risks. Ugh….they were horrible including a high risk of developing cancer, kidney damage, insomnia and other bad things and there were no guarantees. Plus he’d have to log everything and drive to evaluations every week. And, there was a one in three chance that he might have a placebo instead of the experimental drug. To me, that would have been the best thing but why waste all the time, energy, gas and hassle with so many unknowns?

I suggested he ask his GP to see a specialist first because there may be things he can try that have already proven to be effective with little or few side effects. He agreed but it was more of a defeated "You don't think I can make my own decisions." I suggested he call tough MC because I sensed his defensiveness and he said he would. So far he has not.

Instead he changed his attitude to one of gratefulness to me for caring enough to say something (to help him see the value in cancelling the clinical trial) so I'm OK with that. He recently saw a specialist who may have helped fix his medical issues using all natural treatments!

I needed to make an adjustment in my condescending tone. It took me a bit to realize it but once I did, it set us on a different (more healthy) direction.

We just passed another noteworthy anniversary and our 7th year after D-Day marker is coming up soon. Looks like we are on the road to recovery, I hope.

Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #301043
06/10/13 01:19 PM
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apparently I get a "tone" too, Ace.

How did you get rid of it?


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Miranda] #301059
06/10/13 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: Miranda
apparently I get a "tone" too, Ace.

How did you get rid of it?


Quick answer is I have NOT gotten rid of it totally but I can recognize it easier now that I hear the results (H's becoming defeated and defensive). Then I am quick to apologize in as civil caring tone as I can muster. Once I started doing that, H realized that my words might have meaning. They did in this case and he changed his thoughts....and then thanked me for it.

I do want to tell our MC sometime. We're becoming more able to overcome these things on our own but we've been at it for 7 years (after 32 years of the opposite).

Hope that helps. Remember it's different with each couple but that's what's working (notice present ongoing tense) for us. I don't think we'll ever arrive totally. It's a marathon, not a race and the finish line is a process as well.

Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #301075
06/10/13 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ace
...a high risk of developing cancer, kidney damage, insomnia and other bad things and there were no guarantees.

Hi Acey. waves

Whoa! I'd have to be at death's door to consider fixing it with something with those hazards, and I'd probably have freaked if my H announced such a thing. So, so glad Mr. Ace has found a natural alternative treatment. Hope it gets the job done.

I know what you mean about a condescending tone. I slip into that sometimes. Not my best moments... Do you think that there's (at least) one partner in every marriage who shifts into that mode? I do, based on observing the marriages in my life...

Quote:
We just passed another noteworthy anniversary and our 7th year after D-Day marker is coming up soon. Looks like we are on the road to recovery, I hope.


Oh, Ace, of course you are! You guys have been working this for so long and in so many ways.

Mr. RHW said something to me during our recovery that really set me back on my heels, and I'm going to pass it to you, in case it resonates. We'd been on the recovery roller coaster that first year or so, working the MB plan, and making progress. But I was still anxious; still freaked from the whole A nightmare; hadn't yet regained equilibrium. H gently pointed out that we needed to relax a little and appreciate the ground we'd gained instead of always focusing on how much further we had to go.

I had to admit he was right, and from that point, I dialed it down a few notches. Most of the time, anyway.

Don't you think it's safe to say at this point that you and Mr. Ace are going to make it?

Hugs to you both!

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: right here waiting] #301168
06/11/13 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: right here waiting

Don't you think it's safe to say at this point that you and Mr. Ace are going to make it?

Hugs to you both!


Hugz back atcha, RHW.

It seems like we'll make it until I start doubting because of some trigger issue that sneaks into my realm of consciousness.

Today it happened when I was trying to find a "husband Father's Day" card. The sentiments are great but I found myself making exceptions to statements like "You're so smart and so committed and of such high integrity and honesty - - - (except when you cheated on me....") crazy

He likes funny cards anyhow (or sports cards) so amazingly I found a cool baseball card with a short sporty verse.

<sigh>

I like your "dialing it down a notch" suggestion. We HAVE come a long way and I'll refocus on those accomplishments and accompanying joyous memories, past, present and future.

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #301173
06/11/13 02:09 AM
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Oh, I hear you about choosing greeting cards. I stuff a lot of birthday, anniversary, Valentine's Day cards back into their slots when the inscription hits a nerve. And it still happens, nearly 7 years post D-Day.

Truth is, though, that I had the same reaction to those things before H's affair! He wasn't exactly ringing my chimes then, either. Of course, back then I didn't know how much worse it was gonna get... Didn't mushy greeting cards make you roll your eyes before your D-Day?

Surely I can't have been the only one doing that waaay before the affair.

Heck, It could have been an early warning sign that we were vulnerable.

Originally Posted By: Ace
It seems like we'll make it until I start doubting because of some trigger issue that sneaks into my realm of consciousness.


Maybe it would help when the trigger hits to search your memory for the tenor of your recent interactions. Most of the time, I'll bet you'll get positive memories to counter the trigger. When that doesn't happen--time to ramp up your game! shocked

I'm going to try that myself. I've got to go find a Father's Day card and an anniversary card this month!

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: right here waiting] #301235
06/11/13 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: right here waiting

Maybe it would help when the trigger hits to search your memory for the tenor of your recent interactions. Most of the time, I'll bet you'll get positive memories to counter the trigger. When that doesn't happen--time to ramp up your game! shocked

I'm going to try that myself. I've got to go find a Father's Day card and an anniversary card this month!


Glad to hear it's not just me with card verses. Yes, it was tough before the A but I didn't have to rule out honesty....well, at least I didn't KNOW it all that time. AFter D-Day 1, I discovered he'd been lying for decades.

Even thought you two have the same D-Day as we do (7 years ago), we have a few differences in our sitches (one being I was hoping he'd cheat so I could dump him). I'm sure there are a few more but gotta get to work now so it will have to wait til later.

Thanks,
Ace

P.S. Happy Anniversary! claps You are a few years ahead of us in that category, plus you're both retired.
nod <- That's me, green with envy that you're able to retire. We could retire but we wouldn't have a life (or a place to live...or a car...or...LOL)

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #301306
06/11/13 07:07 PM
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Yes, that's one difference, Ace. After years of trying to carry his part and mine, I gave up and accepted conventional wisdom: the honeymoon's over. Adapted and took satisfaction in what I did have--great kids, good friends, satisfying work. He involved himself in none of it, but he didn't leave, either. Looking back, he was probably immobilized by depression till a big marker birthday loomed. Then he blew with a vengeance I couldn't have imagined.

How did your H play it while you were hoping for your get-out-of-M-free card?

PS~About retirement. I can see how it could be a marriage ender if the partners haven't made peace with each other. I hate that it took the awful pain of an affair demolishing our lives, but without what we did afterwards, I doubt we'd be happy together today. You will be able to say the same when your time comes, young'un. nod

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: right here waiting] #301445
06/12/13 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: right here waiting


How did your H play it while you were hoping for your get-out-of-M-free card?


Ironically, my decision to give up happened after we got into a huge fight over.....


.....


.....


.....

Click to reveal..
where to sit to have our picnic boxed lunch at a......



.....



wait for it again.....


.....



.....



Click to reveal..
...Full day Marriage Workshop sponsored by Campus Crusaders founder (can't remember his name but it might be Bill something)


After that day, I started a secret bank account and started chucking away small amounts of cash from my side jobs (writing and working with a regional publication).

Then I immersed myself in my work projects, some of which involved contact with my AEA partners ("Almost" Emotional Affair) but I told H about those contacts and he didn't even care.

He lied to me about a work project and when it backfired he got fired and I almost felt sorry for him. Otherwise, that would have been a good time to dump him.

I guess I still cared a little (or I didn't want the guilt associated with hittin' the guy while he was down) so I helped him start to get back on his feet by strongly suggesting he contact a guy he had coached with previously and who now had a facility where H could teach pitching lessons to school kids evenings and weekends. The guy had seen my H's story in the media (his firing had made ugly headlines) but he approached my H for the real story and subsequently invited him to work with him.

We seldom saw each other which was fine with me. Unfortunately, that same facility (since closed) is where he was able to secretly contact OW ...and the rest is history.

To answer your question in MB terms, my H didn't get much attention from me (I did bring his dinner down to the facility occasionally) so that may have made him vulnerable to OW when she was nice to him when they played an online game.

I'll have to comment on your retirement PS later cuz...


...uhhh...


Click to reveal..
I've gotta get to work!
crazy


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #301508
06/12/13 07:10 PM
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See, that's the cool part about being retired. grin

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: right here waiting] #302108
06/15/13 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: right here waiting

PS~About retirement. I can see how it could be a marriage ender if the partners haven't made peace with each other. I hate that it took the awful pain of an affair demolishing our lives, but without what we did afterwards, I doubt we'd be happy together today. You will be able to say the same when your time comes, young'un. nod


I've been collecting all kinds of articles on retirement...how to plan so you don't "run out of money" before you "run out of life".... how to know when you're NOT ready to retire....how to keep from killing your spouse when you find yourself feeling suffocated in retirement. I think it might be good to have a "how to retire with your spouse and live to tell about it" type of thread on the <<<Magnify Marriage>>> forum.

What would you post if you were to start such a thread, RHW? Mr. RHW? Anyone who is retired and proud of it?

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #302177
06/15/13 08:16 PM
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Heck, we're not deep enough into it to have anything useful to post yet. (And in any event, Mr. RHW would sooner put hot coals in his eyes than post!)

I do promise to post any insights on the subject if and when I get 'em, though.

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: right here waiting] #302191
06/15/13 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: right here waiting
Heck, we're not deep enough into it to have anything useful to post yet. (And in any event, Mr. RHW would sooner put hot coals in his eyes than post!)

I do promise to post any insights on the subject if and when I get 'em, though.

Does this mean you are still in the Honeymoon phase?

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Rich57] #302242
06/16/13 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rich57

Does this mean you are still in the Honeymoon phase?


laugh1 ROFL laugh


Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #302246
06/16/13 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rich57

Does this mean you are still in the Honeymoon phase?


eek

God, no! That would be like having to redo adolescence! No thanks.

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: right here waiting] #302296
06/17/13 12:55 PM
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We've been 1/2 retired ever since Daryl and I first got together. When I was working and going to school and raising kids, having him free 24/7 was a godsend in so many ways.

Then when I scaled back and just worked ONE job and nothing else, with the kids grown and gone, it took some adjustment. And we still suffer some, from him wanting my "help" with every little thing (read he wants my company all the time)

When I retire and we are both home full time, ... ::shudders:: I can't imagine what that will be like. Thank goodness I'm around 20 years from there.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Miranda] #302437
06/18/13 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: Miranda


When I retire and we are both home full time, ... ::shudders:: I can't imagine what that will be like. Thank goodness I'm around 20 years from there.


HOKAY, Miranda. You've outlined your next project (if you're ambitious enough to tackle it): Magnify your Marriage so much that you both want to spend time with each other.

As you say, you've got 20 years to work on it! smile

Something happened at work today that makes me want to speed up our retirement timeline to 2 years, not 7.

I.
Can't.
Wait!!!!

I'm calling our planner tomorrow to set up an appointment. Maybe I'll start the "retirement" thread myself.



We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #302443
06/18/13 05:33 AM
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Just found this from US News & World Reports on 4 ways to calculate your retirement number. Thought I'd park a link here since I don't have time to start the new thread:

"4 Ways to Calculate Your Retirement Number" - US News article by Financial Blogger Rob Berger

I wish I had this interest in finding out retirement info when I was in my 30's and 40's and had time to "grow our dough."

cry

Last edited by Ace; 06/18/13 05:37 AM.
Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #302464
06/18/13 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ace
Originally Posted By: Miranda


When I retire and we are both home full time, ... ::shudders:: I can't imagine what that will be like. Thank goodness I'm around 20 years from there.


HOKAY, Miranda. You've outlined your next project (if you're ambitious enough to tackle it): Magnify your Marriage so much that you both want to spend time with each other.

As you say, you've got 20 years to work on it! smile



Ace, that is absolutely an unintended consequence of the work we've been doing, imo. The better I get at setting boundaries and owning only my own stuff, and allowing myself to be well and truly seen, the more enjoyable time spent together becomes.

I think it is reasonable that within 20 years that retirement will look pretty good. I just hadn't thought about it that way.

Thanks!


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Miranda] #302909
06/20/13 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Miranda

I think it is reasonable that within 20 years that retirement will look pretty good. I just hadn't thought about it that way.

Thanks!


You're welcome.
Always glad to provoke different thought processes. I know your detachment...still working to overcome it, too but really making progress.

I actually went to the web site of our pension source (had no idea until a few years ago either of us even had a pension and how that meant we had a "stipend for life") and started day-dreaming. I can begin to see H and I actually having fun together 24/7 now. A.m.a.z.i.n.g!!!!

I may not be around for a week or so...huge event at work.

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #303249
06/22/13 05:04 PM
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Acey:

I have worked out *our* retirement plan to age 82/85 for Flamingo and me.

I have the income we expect to make from now until then.

And then I have the expenses of living until then.

I think spreadsheets are terrific.

Flamingo will be able to retire in 2 years, with a pension, so, we can survive without her working.

And I expect to do this stuff till I am 72. It is not phyically demanding...only mentally. And I can back down how big or small my business is.

I can use the same template to create many different scenarios. I can sell the house and we can move, or she can continue working, or I can retire at 62, not 72, or if I get hit by a meteorite.. What happens then?

Lots of assumptions. And any plan for 30 years is full of them. I go conservative on the income and the investment returns, and aggressive with increases in energy costs, medicals and insurance and taxes. Cover myself two ways there.

And we can always be more frugal...

SFB


Finding an ethical way to deal with pain, fear, disappointment etc..is part of the experience of becoming a stronger person...one who is driven by compassion instead of compulsion...ie I have a legitimate reason to be stressed out right now...however, my response to it will determine how others percieve me, and myself. (quoting Star*Fish)
Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: SFB] #303263
06/22/13 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: SFB
Acey:

I have worked out *our* retirement plan to age 82/85 for Flamingo and me.

I have the income we expect to make from now until then.

And then I have the expenses of living until then.

I think spreadsheets are terrific.

Flamingo will be able to retire in 2 years, with a pension, so, we can survive without her working.

And I expect to do this stuff till I am 72. It is not phyically demanding...only mentally. And I can back down how big or small my business is.

I can use the same template to create many different scenarios. I can sell the house and we can move, or she can continue working, or I can retire at 62, not 72, or if I get hit by a meteorite.. What happens then?

Lots of assumptions. And any plan for 30 years is full of them. I go conservative on the income and the investment returns, and aggressive with increases in energy costs, medicals and insurance and taxes. Cover myself two ways there.

And we can always be more frugal...

SFB

Hmmm we got you through YOUR life crisis.

Now if Flamingo doesn't have one your planning will be OK.

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Rich57] #303290
06/22/13 09:52 PM
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Awww Rich.
Originally Posted By: Rich57

Now if Flamingo doesn't have one your planning will be OK.


We all have life crises (or is it crisis's?), planning or not.

I wish our planning could produce permanent results. Of course, a pre-planned life would be boring, wouldn't it?

Click to reveal..
Not for me! I'd love to be able to write my life and have it (all good and no bad) come true!


Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: SFB] #304491
06/30/13 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: SFB
Acey:

I have worked out *our* retirement plan to age 82/85 for Flamingo and me.

I have the income we expect to make from now until then.

And then I have the expenses of living until then.

I think spreadsheets are terrific.

Flamingo will be able to retire in 2 years, with a pension, so, we can survive without her working.

And I expect to do this stuff till I am 72. It is not phyically demanding...only mentally. And I can back down how big or small my business is.

I can use the same template to create many different scenarios. I can sell the house and we can move, or she can continue working, or I can retire at 62, not 72, or if I get hit by a meteorite.. What happens then?

Lots of assumptions. And any plan for 30 years is full of them. I go conservative on the income and the investment returns, and aggressive with increases in energy costs, medicals and insurance and taxes. Cover myself two ways there.

And we can always be more frugal...

SFB


Great post, SFB. As I mentioned above and on your "What would you do?" thread on the OT forum, I'm working (in my mind only for now) on a new thread for the <<<MAgnify MArriages>>> Forum on how retirement decisions may (or may not) affect marriages.

In your professional opinion, what column titles and sub-titles should be included in a comprehensive "retirement planning" spreadsheet?

Ace

Re: *** "A Migration of the Missing Pieces" *** [Re: Ace] #305433
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Quote:
In your professional opinion, what column titles and sub-titles should be included in a comprehensive "retirement planning" spreadsheet?


golf lessons
tennis lessons
bar supplies
beach supplies
flip flop fund

grin


may came home with a smooth round stone
as small as a world and as large as alone. -- e. e. cummings
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