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Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415043
10/19/16 07:24 PM
10/19/16 07:24 PM
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Miranda Offline
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That is WONDERFUL news. Thanks for sharing it with us Hold.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Miranda] #415045
10/19/16 07:36 PM
10/19/16 07:36 PM
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Yes that is great news

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415050
10/19/16 08:13 PM
10/19/16 08:13 PM
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Very happy to read this! thumbsup

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Oblivious2678] #415066
10/19/16 09:37 PM
10/19/16 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Oblivious2678
Very happy to read this! thumbsup


Ditto!!!! thumbsup

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415068
10/19/16 09:48 PM
10/19/16 09:48 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Thanks everyone. I very much appreciate the support.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415073
10/20/16 12:09 AM
10/20/16 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
On a more purely uplifting note, Mrs. H had a lung scan that showed no new nodules and no growth of the nodules she had last time. So it looks like the cancer did not spread to her lungs. And they said you can see a clear line where the radiation affected her tissue, so it apparently "worked" to blast the most rapidly dividing cells in her armpit. Good news.


Great news!

Is this her 1st anniversary since diagnosis? That is a huge milestone.

The timing of her cruise may just be a perfect reward to mark it.

Go, Hold!! clapping

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: TC_Manhattan] #415094
10/20/16 05:37 AM
10/20/16 05:37 AM
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Really grand news, Hold!

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Blair] #415096
10/20/16 12:34 PM
10/20/16 12:34 PM
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Quote:
As I said before, I am not worried about her wanting someone else. I am worried about her newly divorced friend wanting some male attention and Mrs. Hold being too nice to be a wet blanket toward the person who is paying for her cruise. And as we all know, once you involve alcohol and being alone with a man, it ceases to be solely a question of the woman's autonomy.

Has she recently gone out with a group of female friends and gotten drunk and silly? Yes. But with a group. Less chance of being pulled away from a group. Here it is just Mrs. Hold and the divorcee. If the divorcee decides to take a man back to her cabin, now Mrs. Hold is alone and drunk on a cruise ship. At that point, it is not her I distrust.


This statement is depressing as heck. One of Mrs. H's life missions has been providing rape survivor post-crisis care, so unless she is an alcoholic I wouldn't see her indulging to the point that someone could take advantage of her. Maybe there is something I'm missing, but I would think that would be the opposite of attractive to her.

And I didn't go on girl trips when I was married, but if I did, if my then-H gave me a speech like you did, suggesting that I would drink to excess because I am comfortable giving away my decision-making, knowing my story, I would be deeply upset and offended. To be honest, it's very hard personally to read what you said and tamp down the lump in my chest at what you're implying. I get that my response is about me, not about you, but we're friends so I thought I'd share.

Did I share with you my cruise story? When B and I were married, I always wanted to go on a cruise, had a coworker who got all the rest of the coworkers deep discounts, and had wonderful experiences. But B said we couldn't afford it. The summer after our divorce went through, he booked a $1200 trip for him and the kids on the Oasis of the Seas. Not discounted. So clearly "we" had the money all along. And then asked me if I wanted to go. I talked to you all here, and decided yes I'm there! But he didn't add me. So I called Royal Caribbean, said I was Mrs. B, would you please add me to the reservation, and they did, for $149. He was mad at that moment, but we all had an amazing time and on the trip he was happy I was there.

I've taken a cruise every year since, and it has been by far the least expensive way to travel. On Carnival, now that you have no kids and can travel any time of the year, you two can book an 11 day cruise from NYC to the Eastern Caribbean for $949 a person. So the question is, is it that you two cannot afford to travel, or do you enjoy saying no to that more?

Edited to add: That is awesome to hear about the lung scan!

Last edited by NewEveryDay; 10/20/16 12:43 PM. Reason: added more

"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: NewEveryDay] #415101
10/20/16 01:59 PM
10/20/16 01:59 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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NED: Thanks for sharing your concerns. So many threads to pull apart.

Just last weekend Mrs. H went away with friends from college. All age 50+. One got so drunk that when they got her in a cab to back to the hotel she threw up. I don't think Mrs. H got THAT drunk but she did mention having several shots. She is not a large woman (thanks to WW and her willpower) so it doesn't take much to get her quite tipsy. I am not worried about her getting so drunk that she isn't sufficiently conscious to say "no". I am worried about her getting sufficiently drunk that accepting an offer from a guy to walk her back to her cabin "just to make sure she doesn't get lost" sounds gallant rather than predatory.

I am also worried about the peer pressure from her newly divorced friend. They have been friends since before we met, we attended her wedding to her ex and she attended our wedding, so I know of her, but I do not know her well since we never lived close to each other. I have no idea if she, newly divorced empty-nester and thousands of miles from home, is going to want to sip tea and discuss celebrity gossip or hit the bars and pick up men to prove she "still has it". If she wants to "have a little fun", Mrs. H may feel obliged (remember, her friend paid for the cruise) to go along and sit with her, dance with her, etc. After all these years reading marriage forums, can you tell me I have zero reason to be concerned that such an environment might lead to Mrs. H doing something she didn't walk into the room intending to do?

As for travel, over the past few years we have gone on trips with our kids to several countries and continents. We were going on a tropical vacation with them this winter but are scared of Zika so now we are going to California instead. We visit our kids (both of whom attend college 1000 miles away from us) several times a year. So we have a large travel budget. But if she had her way and we were rich, she would go away to another continent every month.

But I do not want to hide or pretend. I could take her along on more work trips than I do. I am not pushing to make it happen as much as I would if I was happier in our marriage. And yes, I do get a thrill from saying "no" to her. I wish I didn't. But I do. After decades of hearing "no" from her, sometimes I get more of a thrill from saying "no" than I would from doing what she asked to do. So I say "no". Because I can. Funny how I have developed a taste for poison.

We do have financial constraints. Literally tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt that we roll over every month and have for over a decade. I could very reasonably have said "no" to the cruise on financial grounds (round trip air ticket to get to and from ports was not cheap, shore excursion and alcohol purchases will be on me, and a month without working means she will need extra cash from me when she gets home). But I didn't. Which is why I asked the initial question on this thread.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415117
10/20/16 06:02 PM
10/20/16 06:02 PM
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The Dark Side of the Moon
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Awesome news!


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: AntigoneRisen] #415174
10/21/16 07:45 PM
10/21/16 07:45 PM
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Hold:

I am very happy to hear the news of your W's recent exam. That is always good news.

SFB


Finding an ethical way to deal with pain, fear, disappointment etc..is part of the experience of becoming a stronger person...one who is driven by compassion instead of compulsion...ie I have a legitimate reason to be stressed out right now...however, my response to it will determine how others percieve me, and myself. (quoting Star*Fish)
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: SFB] #415243
10/24/16 01:15 PM
10/24/16 01:15 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Over the weekend we attended a family event. Mrs. Hold's aunt and uncle were there. Afterward, the aunt texted Mrs. H to compliment me on being a great husband. So while I do drink poison and sometimes say "no" from spite, I do tend to treat Mrs. H well most of the time. On the outside at least. I always thought I would have been an excellent actor if I had chosen that as a career. I guess I was correct.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415274
10/24/16 08:08 PM
10/24/16 08:08 PM
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Hold, you are a hoot.

You remind me so of Silas in The DaVinci Code. eek

There's some mileage you gain out of self-flagellation..

Just revel in the compliment, and your accomplishments.

You are way better than that for which you give yourself credit. razz

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: TC_Manhattan] #415295
10/25/16 01:16 PM
10/25/16 01:16 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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TC: I don't know about that.

Mrs. H mooned me today. It is nice to see her feeling comfortable in her own skin and comfortable enough with me. Back in the bad old days she was always covered neck to ankles and wrists and there was no playfulness. Lately she smiles more when she is with me. I am happy for her.

I wish I could be happy for me. But that is not allowed.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415305
10/25/16 02:52 PM
10/25/16 02:52 PM
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Hmm.....mooning you is definitely progress!

Lol

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415306
10/25/16 02:54 PM
10/25/16 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
I wish I could be happy for me. But that is not allowed.


Perhaps some day you may choose to rewrite the plot.. read

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415317
10/25/16 07:48 PM
10/25/16 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
I wish I could be happy for me. But that is not allowed.


In time, be patient. The sun still shines in your neighborhood, right? At least smile, it makes people wonder what you are up to. smile

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Orchid2] #415320
10/25/16 08:03 PM
10/25/16 08:03 PM
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Miranda Offline
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I have trouble with this too, Hold.

But I actually laughed a little bit this weekend. So it CAN happen. Even for "people like us." Once in a while.

I don't think I'll be making a habit of it or anything. But you never know....


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Miranda] #415323
10/25/16 09:05 PM
10/25/16 09:05 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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I am blessed at my age to still have my parents. I will be seeing them later this week. That is wonderful.

I get hugs from Mrs. H far more often than in the past. I don't enjoy them as much as I used to, but that is on me. I am foolish, but not too stupid to realize this is an improvement and something to be cherished. I dreamed of it for many many years. Stupid to spurn it now that it has arrived.

My kids text me every day. Not always good news, but isn't it wonderful that they turn to me and Mrs. H when they are unhappy?

I spread some grass seed on my lawn where the weeds are taking over and some of the seeds sprouted! Fresh new green shoots of grass! I love the look and the smell. The cycle of life goes on.

Much to be thankful for.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415324
10/25/16 09:19 PM
10/25/16 09:19 PM
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I'm lousy at the "gratitude" thing. counting blessings, etc, I've always been bad at it.

I try, I really do. But it's just not a gift I have. I come up with things like "my husband isn't dead" :\

If I work super hard at it I can think of the boys, and stuff like that. But there isn't a lot there. I know I have a lot to be grateful for. I know I do. I'm just bad at what my therapist calls "gratitude practice." He says I shouldn't worry about it too much though, because I really live a very positive life, in spite of it. He marvels at that a bit. He attributes it to my really strong resilience. So I'm supposed to just "try" to exercise gratitude, as I can. Because I might get better with practice, and to not beat myself up if I'm not good at it, because it's okay not to be good at everything. smile

I'm grateful for the knowledge that it's okay to be sub par at some stuff. Giving it a solid effort is good too.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Miranda] #415331
10/25/16 11:33 PM
10/25/16 11:33 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Miranda
I'm grateful for the knowledge that it's okay to be sub par at some stuff. Giving it a solid effort is good too.


Love that concept. Stop beating myself up for not being good at being grateful.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #415358
10/26/16 01:20 PM
10/26/16 01:20 PM
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Posts: 5,407
Not quite here
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Not quite here
Great news and I don't think you are a doormat and I think you handled it thoughtfully. What if she does and she does tell you though?


Married 22years (this year) ~13y since dday(?)
DD17 DS14
Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Squeaky Tree] #415363
10/26/16 02:17 PM
10/26/16 02:17 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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ST: Thanks. Don't worry, she won't. She is at her core a good hearted person. She knows it will hurt me. She knows I won't leave over it. And she knows that living with me with both of us knowing would be torture for her.

I am not relying on her willpower. I am relying on her self-interest.

Like TC said, I play this chess game many moves out.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
No, you are not. [Re: holdingontoit] #415509
10/31/16 02:32 PM
10/31/16 02:32 PM
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Hold:

One day at a time, my friend.

One day at a time.

SFB


Finding an ethical way to deal with pain, fear, disappointment etc..is part of the experience of becoming a stronger person...one who is driven by compassion instead of compulsion...ie I have a legitimate reason to be stressed out right now...however, my response to it will determine how others percieve me, and myself. (quoting Star*Fish)
Re: No, you are not. [Re: SFB] #415525
10/31/16 08:43 PM
10/31/16 08:43 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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SFB: Every day we discuss her plans for the trip. What they are doing. What they are packing. Hard to avoid references to the trip.

Each time she reassures me that she wishes I could accompany her, and that she will not be doing anything with other men. I tell her I know she won't. Because she loves me. And because men are yucky. And because I won't leave her over it, and the guilt would eat away at her. Which would force her to divorce me to free herself. At which point the kids would find out. Causing our daughter to disown her.

Sometimes I give her the condensed version: "every time you look at another man, think of how you will feel when you have to tell the kids that you are leaving me because you cheated and you can't stand the guilt."

I know, it would earn me more Love Bank points if I said "I know you would never cheat because you love me and you care about my feelings and you would never hurt me that much." Sorry, but I don't think I could say that with a straight face.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
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