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Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things #434813
04/03/18 07:25 PM
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Found an interesting article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things

1. They frequently put other people and plans before you.
2. They don’t communicate well.
3. They’ve cheated on you.
4. They’ve stopped having ― or talking about ― sex with you.
5. They’re dealing with addiction issues: drugs, alcohol or gambling.
6. They’ve recently gone through a major life event like a career change, big move, or the illness or death of a parent.
7. They’re controlling and emotionally volatile.
8. They’re dealing with significant mental health issues.
9. They keep secrets from you.

The article goes into further detail on each of the 9 items listed above. Take a look at how many of these you may have dealt with in your situation. In my case 7 out of the 9 items were present in my WST.

This may be a good tool to share with our young ones as they look to choose partners in their lives.

Very interesting article.

jmo,
Orchid


Orchid
Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434821
04/03/18 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Orchid2
8. They’re dealing with significant mental health issues.
I tell young guys all the time to bail out of relationships when their girl has mental health issues and their relationship "just coincidentally" is always rocky. I don't know why it is a badge of uniqueness these days to proudly proclaim one's BPD diagnosis. But it sure does draw a lot of ire from these women when I tell their men to find more peaceful women elsewhere.

"Just because I have BPD, does that mean I shouldn't have a relationship!?!"

When we are talking about relationships and the hallmark of your disorder is unstable interpersonal relationships AND you are making zero progress getting better (or not doing anything about it at all)?

No, no you shouldn't be in a relationship...

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434824
04/03/18 11:27 PM
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There is most likely something in the guy that makes him attracted to someone with untreated mental illness. THAT's what I talk to the guy about.

Otherwise, he'll just go to the next person with untreated mental illness. And it will be difficult for the person they are with to get treatment and make progress if he is someone who "needs" her to be unwell.

The way out of the vicious cycle is to deal with one's own issues no matter who you're with at the time, whether or not they are dealing with their own issues.

That's what I tell the young men who come to me with their relationship woes.

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: LivingWell] #434825
04/03/18 11:34 PM
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The article has more details and like all subjects, these are some general guidelines.

Maybe we would have made different choices ourselves had more of this type of info had been ready.

I think being too available can be a sign also. While not everything is black and white, there should be some common sense to guide young love or any love. wink


Orchid
Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: LivingWell] #434826
04/03/18 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LivingWell
There is most likely something in the guy that makes him attracted to someone with untreated mental illness.
Yeah. It's called "getting laid" and the Vicky Mendoza Diagonal.

Few guys are that screwed up to attracted to crazy AND ugly...

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434827
04/03/18 11:54 PM
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lol

I also mention to the guy that if his only option for getting laid is with untreated mental illness then that is a concern!

They never admit to that but their face says it all.

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Fergie] #434834
04/04/18 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by LivingWell
There is most likely something in the guy that makes him attracted to someone with untreated mental illness.


Originally Posted by Fergie
Yeah. It's called "getting laid" and the Vicky Mendoza Diagonal.
Few guys are that screwed up to attracted to crazy AND ugly...


I think more than may be realized. That KISA often shows the 'maiden in destress' was more of a trap.

Looks doesn't really matter. Some WS give up great looking mates, families and more to go off into the sunset with a coach potato, nagging, whinny old has been. So much for the stepping up in life theory.

Then again, the mindset of the WS is that.....either for a while or permanently......no mind, no matter, no memory. eek




Last edited by Orchid2; 04/04/18 03:19 AM.

Orchid
Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434851
04/04/18 02:13 PM
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See, but it cuts both ways. I hit several of these. So Mrs H was just as nuts for marrying me as I was for marrying her!


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434853
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Truth is if anyone went strictly by that list, no one would get married. Everyone has red flags. Show me the person, I'll show you the red flags.

A better approach to relationships is the same as every other partnership and that requires two things.

Have enough in common that you can share the same goals. If you don't share the same goals, what's the point?

And have enough different about each other that you bring something unique to the table that the other person doesn't have. Otherwise, if they could do it all themselves, why would they need you?

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Fergie] #434854
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Originally Posted by Fergie
Truth is if anyone went strictly by that list, no one would get married. Everyone has red flags. Show me the person, I'll show you the red flags.

A better approach to relationships is the same as every other partnership and that requires two things.

Have enough in common that you can share the same goals. If you don't share the same goals, what's the point?

And have enough different about each other that you bring something unique to the table that the other person doesn't have. Otherwise, if they could do it all themselves, why would they need you?



I like this Fergie! Perfectly describes dh and me. smile

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: SmilingWife] #434858
04/04/18 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SmilingWife
I like this Fergie! Perfectly describes dh and me. smile
If you liked that, you'll love this...

The Nine Enneagram Type Descriptions

Find the personality you are most compatible with.

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Fergie] #434859
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I believe if there is a pattern to these types of attitudes and choices that it could identify future problems.

No one is perfect but without being paranoid, we should be aware.

I saw goodness in my then H that I thought we had things in common but as I saw his family developing issues, he developed issues. The problems he saw in his siblings and parents bothered him but for himself, he couldn't see it and that concerned me. We did talk about these things during our M at and some point he just checked out. Porn gave him another world that better suited his hidden self.

For the sake of ourselves, friends and children, I believe being aware and willing to walk away when we know things are headed down a wrong path after fair opportunity has been given is important.

For those of us who have been through A's related to personality quirks (which I believe is different from A's that result from a one time bad choice, more of a personality pattern A), do you feel you saw it coming? What would you say to your son or daughter so they don't end up in a similar type of R?

Despite all our generations of learning and living through these horrible events, we seem to repeat the hurt each generation. Y? Maybe shame, lack of understanding, denial, disappointment, etc. Yet should those things really prevent us from helping others (including our children) so they can learn and have less problems in this regard?

How much are we willing to step out of our comfort zone to deal with these issues for others as well as ourselves?

jmo,
Orchid


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Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Fergie] #434861
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Originally Posted by Fergie
Originally Posted by SmilingWife
I like this Fergie! Perfectly describes dh and me. smile
If you liked that, you'll love this...

The Nine Enneagram Type Descriptions

Find the personality you are most compatible with.


Ok, that is super fun. I THINK I am a 6 and dh is a 2. And it says we are mostly well suited for each other.

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434862
04/04/18 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Orchid2
I believe if there is a pattern to these types of attitudes and choices that it could identify future problems.

No one is perfect but without being paranoid, we should be aware.

I saw goodness in my then H that I thought we had things in common but as I saw his family developing issues, he developed issues. The problems he saw in his siblings and parents bothered him but for himself, he couldn't see it and that concerned me. We did talk about these things during our M at and some point he just checked out. Porn gave him another world that better suited his hidden self.

For the sake of ourselves, friends and children, I believe being aware and willing to walk away when we know things are headed down a wrong path after fair opportunity has been given is important.

For those of us who have been through A's related to personality quirks (which I believe is different from A's that result from a one time bad choice, more of a personality pattern A), do you feel you saw it coming? What would you say to your son or daughter so they don't end up in a similar type of R?

Despite all our generations of learning and living through these horrible events, we seem to repeat the hurt each generation. Y? Maybe shame, lack of understanding, denial, disappointment, etc. Yet should those things really prevent us from helping others (including our children) so they can learn and have less problems in this regard?

How much are we willing to step out of our comfort zone to deal with these issues for others as well as ourselves?

jmo,
Orchid



I do believe in exploring our FOO and focusing on not repeating cycles. At some point though we are all responsible for our choices and some are just wrong (like porn and affairs). There is no justification for those types of behaviors and no where to really go with it except, 'stop.'

Have you heard the song "Better Man"?

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: SmilingWife] #434885
04/06/18 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SmilingWife
I do believe in exploring our FOO and focusing on not repeating cycles. At some point though we are all responsible for our choices...

It's especially gratifying when you see your grown children doing the same. It's also kinda weird being the parent rather than the child in the FOO being explored!

It gives me much hope for future generations.

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434936
04/08/18 02:05 AM
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I know many people who do not have any of the 9 red flags above. Since getting deeper into what I want in life and cleaning up my boundaries around what I have in my life, I now know many, many more. Normal has no objective definition. What a person considers normal and abnormal is a reflection of what that person most often sees in his/her life. I'd submit that anyone who thinks that everyone has one or more of the 9 issues listed above that s/he take a close look at who and what they are allowing in their lives. I do believe we all know people with one or more of those flags, but when everyone you know has them...I think that's a red flag.

Why would a man who is just interested in sex be evaluating someone for a committed relationship? I'd say that man definitely has issues, since purely sexual relationships are where hooking up and FWB come in. Basing a complex, committed relationship like marriage purely on sex isn't a sign of a responsible adult decision. Then again, I'd also question the personal issues behind a woman considering marrying such a man. The shape of your genitals doesn't determine - or affect - a person's risk of either mental illness or poor decision making.

Now, the advice to find someone with shared values is something with which I wholeheartedly agree. It's also one of the more difficult things to attempt. Quite a lot of people live their lives without truly understanding and accepting their actual values (ACT can help with that). Mostly, we try to say we value what society tells us we should value. Without focused inner reflection and acceptance, few people are in a place to honestly convey their values. Others just simply lie, because the infatuation says they need the relationship. Therefore, they don't want to put it in jeopardy. That's where red flags can come in very handy.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: AntigoneRisen] #434938
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AR,

It's a guide more than a rule. Still sometimes it gets hard when your heart is attracted to someone. Those 9 points are reference. Many don't have a reference point and will make a commitment to anyone who gives them the time of day. Is it desperation? Maybe but we should value ourselves better than that. We should also not be afraid to be by ourselves as we go through life.

For those of us that have BTDT, ask us if we would prefer being alone or being in an R with an abusive, manipulative, untrustworthy person? What should or could we have seen in our former mates that may have brought that to our attention and what can we learn from this going forward?

I for one would not want my son to experience either side of what happened in our home in his future R. Can't guarantee it won't happen but I can certainly do my best to help give him the tools to possible avoid it.

In my case, WST did lie to me. Reasons for lying isn't the issue as the point that he lied and was not sorry. His fears and values are not even on the same plane as most people. Should I have seen it sooner? Yes. Did I try to prepare for it and even confront parts of it before and during our M? Yes. Where did I fail? In that, I should have not given him so many chances. The point of no return should have been enforced earlier It would have helped if he was more truthful but that was not to be. Most of it rested on my shoulders to uncover, then and now.

I would rather not have experienced all of this drama and turmoil. Maybe learn from others who were not inhibited or shy about discussing such a sensitive subject? It isn't taboo, it is life. This isn't about hurting anyone's feelings if it saves lives.

So those 9 points as guidelines would have been more helpful then......they are now. wink

jmo,
Orchid


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Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434940
04/08/18 02:56 AM
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Orchid,

I don't think it is desperation, although I do think that plays a part with some people. I think it is the Hollywood Myth...both Mark and I have written articles for MA about it. Love conquers all. Love is all you need. Blah blah blah...BS. BUT - that's what we are told through books, music, TV, movies...so, that is what people expect.

I think red flags help people to evaluate and think through a situation and how to handle that. Different people will make different choices with that.

Personally, I think those red flags are a pretty low bar. I'm learning that I've had very low bars in my life, too. Fixing it is far more work than just making a single decision or waving a magic "fix it" wand. It's something that takes work and is earned. Too bad the name EarningIt is already taken. laugh1

For instance, I'd add:

10.) Does the person genuinely show interest in your inner world? Your thoughts? Your feelings? Your dreams? Your challenges? Your frustrations? If not, this person is not behaving like a partner, and no vows will fix that.
11.) Does the person share your thoughts and goals on parenthood? Child-rearing? Again, some things you can't negotiate. If one of you wants 0 children and the other wants 3, you can't come to a "happy medium" and have 1.5 kids and experience a satisfactory marriage.

There are others.

I think the rule - and it IS a rule - that would have helped me most is, "Look to the actions, not the words. It doesn't matter what the person says they'll do. If their actions contradict it, that tells you what you need to know. Stop pointing it out and exit stage left."

~AR


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434945
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My Ex's actions contradicted his words. He hid it quite well until after we were married.

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434951
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That's also a problem. It's a rule, but not a magic bullet.

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Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434959
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And then there's the issue of "don't get in so far you cannot get out UNTIL you have SEEN enough actions over TIME to be sure that's who the person really and truly is"

I think this where a lot of us slip up. I know I did. I got in too deep, and then I was entrenched. I was blind too long, and then my investment was SO great, with the kids and so much more (my personal value set being what it is.) And my husband is very cautious of where my "hard lines" are. Exceedingly cautious. Which is kind of bizarre, because I don't think I've ever voiced them. But essentially if he ever raised a hand to hit me, I'd be gone. If he ever hurt the animals, I'd be gone. If he raised a hand to the kids, same. But his abuse always stays well clear of that line.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434963
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One thing that I have come to realize is that my desire to keep a first marriage and then an intact FOO for my son was so great that it blinded me to the fact that there were worse things than failing at that.

I think Orchid can relate to that.

In the end, I had to take responsibility for my choice to ignore red flags early and for hanging on too long.

Accepting responsibility for choosing unwisely is at once painful and freeing.

Re: Article: Don’t Get Married Yet If Your Partner Does These 9 Things [Re: Orchid2] #434964
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I accept responsibility for choosing poorly in my first marriage and for what I did to "implode" it. And I accept responsibility for choosing badly this time too.

I don't find it as painful as some might. I get where I went wrong. I see the data points. There are some choices along the way in both journeys that I DO see as pain points. But not too many.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg

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