Don't make this an option. Being vengeful is not productive or healthy.

You expose not to make the OM fail but as a warning to others or to protect your family. You must be guarded about this.

You need to be the sane one for your family.

OM and I go back 30 years from the college days.

Quick update: we did backyard party for my daughter 10th Birthday. Most of our friends came. A few were so upset with my wife that they did not want to come, however, I talked them and all came. My wife was very isolated and did not talk much to many. She is a good host and worked a lot for the party.

She continued to take a little jab at me in front of others in the party which others noticed and did not like. Honestly I do not even feel those jabs as I have been beaten so much by her that these doesn’t even feel anything. Her dad now looks very disoriented and could not sit at one place well.

Thank you and take note of your advice

Yeah but he's a guy and, as the saying goes...

He's not your problem. The mother of your kids is.

I agree.

I am also noticing that I used to talk to a few friends and feel relieved after that. I do not like talking anymore and also don’t like any of my wayward girlfriend taking dig at her. I guess I want to be left alone.

My health is definitely affected now. I had recovered my health by going to gym and swim. But it all stopped for the past two weeks. My head is numb these days and noticing swelled pockets around my eyes. Blood pressure is normal though. Eye and head area is always tired. Not sure if this is a sign of depression. Going to PCP

Orchid: You have a WS GF?



Orchid: The health of the BS and family are usually affected to various degrees. Visit your physician and let them know. Even your dentist, since diseases of the mouth can be indicate other illnesses. This is part of the exposure process.

Anxiety attacks can happen for a while. With treatment and therapy, it can subside. Anxiety is a way your body deals with the stress. So heed that warning from your body and see your doctor as soon as it is reasonable to do so.

There are medical and other alternative ways to deal with anxiety. Find out what works best for you.

Educate yourself so you can make good decisions.

Take care,
Orchid

Please take time for you to stay healthy so you can handle the emotional roller coaster of emotions. That means eating right, staying hydrated, sleeping and resting, etc.

Thank you Blair and Orchid. Will hit gym and yoga again. Seeing pcp next week.

No new event except my cold shoulder has continued. She continues to shows as if nothing has happened. Many in my daughter’s 10th Birthday party noticed the same. From outside she continues to show strong face but we can see her health is also sliding.

Quick question: do exposure kills the affair and/or fog? I am positive my wife has maintained contact with the OP from office. Will she the similar emotional connect/support after it is widely exposed?

That's not the objective. Since you need to realize that the A started without you and continues to exist without you, ending the A also must end by the WS and OP, not you.

What you can do is to take steps to protect yourself, family, assets, property, health and life.

What most WS lack is empathy, being truthful and owning up to reality. WS can display concern and care for others but in a limited manner. It can cause supporters of your family to be swayed and even confused on how to deal with your family. Some may feel their loyalties are split or not want to hurt either one of you causing such persons to be useless in the way of support. Learn to be able to determine that and while you don't want to throw their friendship away, it may be safer to refrain from dealing with such ones for a while (until they realize the truth and determine whether they will support truth, support a lie or go into denial).

Another WS symptom, selective short term memory. As the WS time lengthens, the lack of memory factor can get worse. Also confusion on words and definitions. See the experience below.

If you get this point, you don't have to read further.

Exposure come in many forms but a successful one is done with the right focus and reason, to protect you and your family. Even protects your focus and mindset.

Let me share a recent example that covers a longer period of time. My STBXH was a/is a WS. He may have left off the physical part of the A but the emotional part he still retains to some degree. In other words, he still has the WS mindset. I call him WSt (WS traits). He has that title as long as he holds onto his WS traits and attitude.

WSt's A started in 2000 and the PA with the OW ended in 2004. It is now 2019 and my family and I still feel the ravages of his A plus his ongoing entitled attitude. A no empathy kind of guy (a trademark of a WS) and major memory lapse, changing the dynamics often far from reality.

But it doesn't mean he never has empathy, just a selective one. What does that tell you?

EX: WSt had a sub-contractor friend who was having issues with her H. Concerned her H maybe having an A. This 'friend' confided in WSt as they respected each other. I knew her a bit and worked with her on one of WSt's jobs. I know her to be a good person with morals and values.

WSt asked me to go talk to her and help her figure out what she needed to do. I told WSt that if I spoke to his friend on this subject, I may have to disclose what our family experience with his A. He agreed and said go ahead, say what you need to say. This was about 2015 - 2016. FYI: We split in 2017.

So I agreed and went to visit this sub-contractor. She was a bit of a basket case being betrayed and frustrated. Now in order to get my point across I disclosed not all but many of the relatable issues on WSt's A. We discussed a lot of the things we post here and was able to help her develop a plan.

From then to now, there have been about 2 - 3 instances where WSt has 'accused' me of 'bad-mouthing' him to friends like that sub-contractor and our other friends. Most recently, yesterday. I've reminded him each time that he asked me to go speak to her and approved me disclosing info.

2nd issue, a concerned friend called to see how we were doing. She is like a sister to WSt in his saner days. She gave a message for me to pass onto WSt that she is concerned on how we are doing and hope WSt can come back to his old self and restore his R with God. She is a woman with great faith by example, not just word. She knows about the A over all these years.

I passed on the message. WSt got angry and called her. She tried to reason with him but his only take away was that his reputation was being ruined by me.

Fast forward to last week, this friend called again, this time letting me know she and WSt spoke a while back. She didn't disclose all but some of the convo which also happened a while back. WSt admitted to calling her to 'tell her the truth' (aka: twisted truth). Neither gave complete disclosure, so once again I'm left with bits and pieces to connect.

Here's part of the take away, WSt accused our 'concerned friend' cornered Wst and gave him scoldings. Hmmm...... I noticed that once again WSt was misapplying words (another common issue for WS').

Here's what I texted him in response (edit out names): You weren’t cornered by 'concerned friend'. Can’t you tell the difference between concerned vs cornered? PBR (OW from 2000) cornered me with her wild accusations. 'Concerned friend' was trying to reach your heart and took the risk of talking to you. You claim not to be a danger but do you know what danger you put us in before?

Pay attention to the words concerned vs cornered. They are very different descriptions with different agendas and outcomes. Yet to the WS mindset, he couldn't tell the difference.

Also in both cases, I was asked to provide info and a valid reason.

Now does this bring clarity to what the BS faces? Also, realize if I gave a shorter version with less details, would you still have gotten the point?

Exposure, to help educate and protect you and your family.

Hope this helps.

jmo,
Orchid

Thank you Orchid.

Another question on the 180 approach. This largely limits the interactions and leaves with we both guessing/anxiety. Also, about two weeks ago, I had a mild argument with my mother in law, so I have no or very limited interaction with my in-laws. Just a reminder, they are currently visiting from India and scheduled to go back in Nov. My wife is holding things very strong showing no sign of backing down.

A general update from y'day: She went to NY y'day with my elder daughter and her parents. I younger one did not go as she had a few gift card from her birthday party last Friday (she turned 10) and wanted to go for kids shopping. My wife asked me if I come, our younger one will also come. I refused to go to NY. I took our younger daughter to the mall with her friend. They had a good time.

By the time my wife, daughter and others came from NY, I had slept with my daughter. This morning - I continued to show her cold shoulder and avoiding any kind of eye contact. FYI... About a week ago, a few times I tried to be nice to her by asking her well-being, she retorts with sarcasm. Wondering how long this state of limbo will continue.

A few friends of mine are saying that she will make a move after her parents return. Any thoughts or advise? So far I have maintained that I am pushing her out and not holding back too.

Her cold shoulder should not concern you. That is what you should expect. You should not be surprised by cold shoulder. You should be surprised (and wary) if she shows any warmth.

She has not displayed any evidence that she is worthy of reconciliation. At this point, your walls / deflector shields toward her should be fully raised. You should not be looking for small signs that she wants back in. You should be demanding that she show large measures of concern for you and repentance before you reopen your heart toward her.

Trying to nice them back just lowers your status and reinforces they can treat you as they wish. In essence you are teaching her how she can treat you.

Limbo is a self imposed state. The only one who can keep you there is you.

Stop living on hopium and deal with reality.

What does this mean Mark? Is it advisable for me to initiate a divorce at this time?

The only thing from here I see is separation or divorce. Is there another option?

Living on hopium = you are putting to much of your time/effort on hoping for the best outcome when you would be better off going your own way. Take yourself out of her equation. 180 no contact. You can only control yourself you can’t make her do a thing.

Only you can make the choice to file or not. You can’t keep yourself in limbo forever.

She may have put you in this situation but it is up to you to get yourself out of it.

As long as you fear divorce more than you fear remaining a slave to her whims, there is no other option. I am doing the same thing, so I can understand that line of thinking. Still, even though I am doing it myself, I understand it is the wrong choice.

To put in another way, there are many options. You can stop having any communication with her, but stay married until she files. You can stop asking her what it would take for her to show more concern for you and start communicating what she would have to do to rekindle your interest in her. When she gives you the cold shoulder, you can thank her for giving you time and space apart to help you deal with her deep betrayal. Lots of ways to make it clear to her that, just because you have not filed for divorce yet, you are not OK with her behavior.

Or you can send the message that you are, for all practical purposes, OK with her treating you poorly. And that you will not leave no matter how poorly she treats you. In which case, the only thing you can expect from her is more poor treatment of you. And yes, it really is that simple. Not easy to implement our advice. But the analysis is fairly straightforward.

Great post O2.
I found frequently that “1000 questions” was a game stacked against the BS. You will only pry (if you are lucky) the least amount if information out of an active WS. This sets up crazy making or gaslighting, to use a popular term.

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Well, how do you feel right now in your gut? That’s limbo.

There are paths out of it, but you have to face some harsh options.

You should be volunteering somewhere. It does wonders for your self esteem AND improves your outlook. Take your kids, too - great teaching moment for them.

kumar, you're still trying to control your wife. You don't get it. We told you that exposure and 180 is for YOU, not for affecting her. You have to be willing to walk away from the marriage before you can achieve ANYTHING. And here you are, weeks later, going right back to 'how do I make them stop cheating.'

Volunteering is a great idea. Don't stay in limbo, waiting for your wife to pull her head out of the sand.

Until you get "you can't make her do a thing" you'll stay stuck.

You go your own way (for you not her) and cut contact.

The only one who can keep you in this is you.