Hold! If you would like a dog you should get one for you to enjoy and love. Besides, they give companionship and affection.

There is nothing wrong with an occasional stop at the pet store to love on all the dogs so you have more "research" on what breed you want to buy. One of my neighbors just got a Golden Doodle and it is a ball of energy.

I've watching the British series All Creatures Great and Small about a Yorkshire veterinarian practice in the 1930's. Cute and interesting stories about everyday life amongst the animal life.

Thought you might find a show like this interesting as you contemplate adding to your family.

I hope all are well. We are fine physically / medically.

But I have been a mess dealing with Mrs. Hold. About once a week I snap at her over small things. She wanted someone gentle who would never raise his voice at her. I was that guy when we met. Because I was so wimpy. I am not that guy any longer. Because I am so angry inside. And with us spending much all day every day together, I cannot hide what is inside me 100% of the time.

Today we had a new sliding patio door installed. We had received an Anderson salesman a few weeks ago who showed us a wood core door with vinyl outer layer to prevent rotting. It was very expensive. I thought I could get a similar door for half the price. I engaged a contractor who shopped with several Anderson suppliers. I thought we found a door almost exactly like the one that Mrs. Hold wanted. I spoke to Mrs Hold about the characteristics. She said "do not get a door that is cheap plastic like in trailer parks". I thought I was avoiding that by getting a much more expensive product with a wood core that is sturdier than the hollow vinyl doors at the low end of the price spectrum. This was double the price of the cheap vinyl doors but half the price of the solid wood doors that have to be painted every 2 or 3 years. I knew we would never maintain the doors properly and then we would have warping and rotting and would have a big mess on our hands.

So the mid-level doors go in. Mrs. Hold does not like to be around workmen so she stayed in our bedroom while I talked to the 2 guys. Then I had to leave the house to go to the office. When I come back, Mrs Hold is angry with me for getting crappy plastic doors. She hates them. She storms off to watch tv. I do some work, eat dinner and go play Pokemon (I figure we need some time apart). She takes a bath. She comes out crying. While she was in the bath, she remembered that one of her assaults was in a trailer park and the guy pressed her up against a plastic sliding door. The whole point of this door was that the old one was cloudy and she couldn't see out into the yard. Now we are going to have to put up curtains so she doesn't get flashbacks from looking at the plastic sliding doors.

She feels that she has a husband who cannot protect her. Who is not motivated to be generous to her. Who does not want her to have the wood doors. I was that husband when we got married. I am not that husband any more. And I am not motivated to become that husband again. I told her that. I just can't.

Saturday is our anniversary. She cancelled our plans to go sit on a patio at a restaurant that reopened. The doors were supposed to be our anniversary present. What a mess. I offered to get the solid wood doors. She says we cannot afford to spend even more thousands than we already spent.

I realize there are very few people, and no other men, that she would share the trailer park story with. I do not take for granted that I am in her inner circle. But I may not be the right person to stay there.

Hold, I'm sorry that went down that way.

Are the doors really just cheap plastic? Aren't they mid-range cost and look? Did she tell you about the trigger before the door purchase and installation so this information could be considered together? Or did she hold back and hit you with it after installation? Did you both choose the look and style of the doors?

Painted wood doors are very hard to maintain. They take time and maintenance. (For example, I have to install a new deck because the previous homeowners didn't take care of the deck properly for a long time.)

It seems like Mrs. Hold wants the nice expensive doors but doesn't want to do the repainting. She expects you to maintain them.

Yes, you could have chosen different doors had she shared information before the purchase. When things are shared afterward, it feels like manipulation and like she expected and wanted you to fail. You're a guy. (Shocker!) You are not one of her girlfriends. You don't read minds. And it isn't like you can rip the doors out and start over. Well - you could - but do you want that cost?

At some point, Mrs. Hold can get therapy to help her overcome her triggers from the assaults. Or she can stop having meltdowns every time she doesn't get her way. But she is old enough to stop using it as a crutch or an excuse. She needs help because you are getting burned out with the constant guessing game.

What do you both want for an end-result? What is the path for a good resolution to this? Do you just want to move to a new house so you aren't remodeling the existing one?

My XW was (is?) disordered. I bought her roses once and she had a complete meltdown because I bought yellow roses and those were her dead grandmother's favorite flower and it reminded her of the funeral. My mistake, right? But then again she had an epic meltdown because I once ordered fried ice cream with honey and not chocolate even though she was sitting there when I ordered.

I know people who were molested as kids. Raped when they had zero power or understanding. And they haven't made it the focus of their personality.


There are very few people and no other men who would put up with this. With a disordered woman like your wife, everything becomes a test. A rigged test you are destined to fail. Doesn't it suck to have zero tolerance for error? It's exhausting.

I tried to make it better. I thought I had a decent idea. We actually have 2 set of sliding doors. One on the main floor off the kitchen to the deck. The one she looks through when she sits in her chair in the kitchen. And one in the basement that leads directly onto the grass in the back yard. We spend zero time down there. I suggested that when I get my bonus in a few months, we buy the solid wood doors for the kitchen, and then use the vinyl-over-wood doors to replace the 40 year old aluminum doors in the basement. The ones in the basement get puddles of water right up against them when it rains, so they need to be vinyl on the surface. But the kitchen doors open onto the raised wooden deck. And the door sill is an inch or 2 higher than the deck. So hardly ever exposed to standing water because rain drains down the spaces between the deck slats.

She explained that she does not want me spending money on wooden doors for the kitchen. If I have a few thousand dollars available for a house project in the fall, she wants new higher grade gravel for the driveway. Or to pay a landscaper to cut down most of the bushes in the beds surrounding the front walk, plant new bushes, and mulch the beds with colored mulch. Or to paint the interior of the house. She even admitted the list is so long I will never be able to afford to satisfy her.

She wants to know what I am going to do about it. About her feeling like she should either divorce me or commit suicide. She complained that I do not care how unhappy she is. I told her I do care, but I cannot afford to allow her tantrums and attempts to send me to the doghouse to have an affect on me. I have to wall myself off from her emotions or I can't function. Not at work. Not at doing household chores. So I have to appear stoic on the outside. Which is not my natural inclination. But she trained me to be this way.

She did say something that is true. She said "I have now realized that when you spend money on getting a new mattress or a new set of sliding doors, you do not view it as periodic home maintenance. You view it as a gift to me. And then it is not a shared experience. Because you do not want it for yourself. I guess I cannot rely on you to take care of providing these things. I guess if I want them I have to make it happen myself." She is correct. If she leaves it to me to do the ordering and to supervise installation, I am not going to do things the way she wishes they would be done. I do not disagree.

At one point she said she does not think I love her. That her father, even though he did not have lots of money, made things happen for her mother. And she saw that my father was very generous to my mother. And she thought I would be that way toward her. But I am not. And I did not disagree. She said I never let her feel "like a kid in a candy store". That she could buy whatever she wanted. I agreed. I told her that I feel I am alone on the ramparts defending our finances. Which unavoidably sets up conflict between us. She said that I should stay that way because I do have to oppose her because she cannot be trusted with the family finances. How the heck am I supposed to respond to that when she tells me she wants me to be generous so she feels I love her??????

Yes, sucks to have zero tolerance for error. I have it at my job. And I have it at home. It is a miracle that I am not a not an alcoholic or a drug addict. Many lawyers are. Never thought I would be so glad to be a masochist.

You are now in a no-win situation. Like a chess game, you don't have very many good moves left. And talk about kicking you when you're down. Just, wow.

I would not spend any more money repairing the house, yard, vehicles, or anything else until Mrs. Hold stops playing the games. (Switching the patio doors was a good idea for compromise!) Doing that at this point is like throwing money in a black hole and hoping for the best. Your bonus can pay of bills or go into your bank account for now.

Mrs. Hold needs immediate counseling for blaming her suicidal ideation on you and trying to manipulate you with it. This won't work out well for either of you. I would make it clear the next time she goes there that you will be calling the authorities. Unless you want to not give her a heads-up and just call them when it happens. Suicide
is not a normal or appropriate response to typical daily life.

It is not your fault that she struggles with her money issues. It is not your fault that she feels sad at her health or other things in her life right now. If she doesn't like where she is at in life, SHE needs to make some changes. She should get treatment for her (likely) depression or whatever else is going on.

The fact is she betrayed you by using and abusing her financial privileges. She is/was using money as a band-aid for her self esteem issues. She cannot be trusted with money. She should have been working full time for a long time to pay it all back and contribute to your financial growth as a team. But it sounds like she's blaming you for not providing her with enough. You work a lot. You work hard. When is it ever going to be enough? When will your marriage be safe?

Well, congratulations on making it to your 28th anniversary today. Will you make it to 30? Do you want to?

"And I thought I'd have a wife who treated me sexually like a kid in a candy store. Yet here we are."


No shinola.

We have a single family friend who is what I like to call a "feral male". He is fairly wealthy and can afford to buy new everything, but he lives like a frat boy. If he wants two motorcycles in his living room, he does it. A couch, a home gym, computer and tv are all he needs.

Conversely we know a couple where the husband works his ass off doing a global sales job he hates. His wife is lazy and mean and looks just like Winston Churchill in a wig. They have multiple homes and fancy cars. And I wouldn't trade places with him for twice what he makes. I know he thinks men are envious of the stuff he has, but why would they be? I may make a quarter of his pay, but I don't have to work nearly as hard only to come home to a cave troll wife.

If women disappeared from earth tomorrow, does your wife really think you'd be buying a new mattress every year without her? Would you work your current job without her? Or would all males live a simple life and mock mercilessly any male who was still peacocking in the new woman-less world?

Does your wife think her cost-to-benefit ratio is good?

Not so, Hold. It can actually provide experience in dealing with a trigger in a very safe place.

Major dday for me was the night of a presidential election. So I got an opportunity to deal with that trigger one time every four years. There were opportunities to deal with other triggers several times a day. Guess which ones became less of an issue first, lol.

I feel for Mrs Hold, Hold. All triggers to that sort of thing cannot be avoided and it can be awful to deal with them. I chose/choose to deal with the ones that want to interfere with what is most important in my life today. That is where I exercise my power... over what is important to me and what is not.

For example, since part of my abuse involved picture taking, cameras were a huge trigger for me. There were much more important triggers to deal with when raising my kids so there are almost no pictures of me. Now I am a grandma and that trigger moved up higher on the priority list... partly because so many other triggers are no longer an issue. So now there are some pictures... not a lot yet but increasing every year.

Hold, sometimes people can be assisted to avoid healing. There are no easy answers. The best advice I can give is to provide a safe place for work to be done. And as far as I can see, you have done that. She might not have as much time and privacy to deal with those things as before the pandemic but I’m sure that you can figure something out.

Be well.

LW, you are a good Ambassador of empathy, patience, and hope. Your post was a good reminder of perspective.

Blair, that was very kind of you to say. And it was read at a time that I needed to hear it. Thank you so much!

Sometimes its ok not to.

It's been a while since I've been on MA. This pandemic thing has me quite busy calming down panicking small business owners.
Add to that this hurricane Douglas guy just passed by real close and so far no real damage. He is almost out of here, just hope he doesn't make a U-turn and double back.

Anyways, as you have documented before Mrs H is always going to have something to complain, because she can. Everything and anything can turn into a trigger or reason for anger with you even if you do your very best, because she can.

I had the male version of that type of person and it is exhausting to maintain any type of long term R with such folks. Came down to the one constant reason of 'not wanting to be told NO'. Yep, all that drama making always had this nagging issue of not wanting to be told NO in the background throwing in some cases tantrum, disruption and chaos almost every time we had a discussion. Whether I said yes or no, it wasn't good enough. Making myself and others the victim was something I could not longer take and it makes me angry that I put up with it for so long. At the same time, he (WSt) had no excuse as well, as much as he tries to do.

You know what is a trigger for me? It is when he says, 'are you saying this is ALL my fault?' Yea, that one.......he has used that so much, I now tell him, 'very well could be' or sure sounds like it, glad you recognize it'.

So HOLD, whether it is the door today, the yard work tomorrow or who knows what later, that one constant reason for all of it sits in the background slowly smoldering waiting for the next opportunity to burn you, again.

That trigger for me now is actually a signal to walk away. I have been able to turn that trigger into a warning signal and leave WSt to stew in his choices. Now of course we are separated and that walk away thing is harder to handle when you are under the same roof but you may be able to adapt somewhat, until you can't.

I have learned to look past the details and go to the root of it all. It took a long time to find that root and if there are even deeper sources identifying more issues, at least I've now got the skills and tools to handle them.

Current example, while preparing for this hurricane (like yesterday), I was looking for this product called QUICK DAM. Re-useable sandbag like product but light weight. Thought all the stores were sold out. WSt was contracted to board up a Walmart Store 2 towns over. He kindly told me there were some at that Walmart, about 20 bags left. He bought one for me and if I wanted more I'd have to drive over to get it. No problem. I thanked him and drove over to pick some of for myself and a few other folks. Didn't have to use it but it's good to have on hand. A bit expensive but I was willing to spend the monies. I get to make these decisions now without a fuss from the other half.

WSt was kind enough to tell me and I thanked him for it. When I got there WSt had 2 guys helping him. I knew one of them and went up to say hi. That guy witnessed WSt treat our family rudely several times. I fed and helped this guy when he was down (WSt makes those kinds of friends on a fairly regular basis). I don't mean that disrespectfully and am all for helping folks but some folks just never get out of that slump due to their bad choices and this guy is one of them. The flip side is this guy used to speak up and tell WSt when he is out of line in how he was treating his family.

Time does erode one's perspective because this time when I went to say hi, he got a bit sarcastic with me. Not once but twice (on my way in and out of the store).

Ok, my point in tell you this story is apparently WSt is still a WSt and he has a following. Will he ever change? Apparently not. Do I need to recognize it and adjust as needed? Yes, I do and that is what I remind myself of everyday.

It is a sad realization because I don't like to see folks make bad decisions but for those who insist on it, sometimes it is better to walk away so they don't break you.

Take care and be safe,
Orchid

It seems that one part of Mrs H being upset is that part of her worries that I do not love her. And part of her feels guilty that she has not been a good wife.

Recently when Mrs H made a comment about my body being hers because she is my wife, and that maybe some day we would resume our sexual relationship, I sat her down and told her that, as my wife, she is entitled to understand my thoughts about the physical side of our relationship. That I do not expect to ever have sex with her again. For several reasons. First, she is an unrecovered victim. Whose mind flies away from her body during sex. I cannot bring myself to have sex with her in these circumstances. Second, I am bad at sex and the sex we have is bad. So the last few times we had sex, I felt bad about my performance. She started to ask "what makes you think you are . . . ", but then she thought better of it. I continued saying that I can only have sex with her if she works on dealing with her trauma. But I don't want her to deal with her trauma, because if she re-connects her mind to her sexuality, then she very well might want someone who is better at it than I am. And no, I am not interested in making the investment to learn how to be better at it. She nodded. I continued, saying that both of us being messed up regarding sex helps keep us faithful to one another. I won't cheat because I believe I am lousy in bed and won't ever allow a woman to see my erect penis. And she won't cheat because sex triggers her PTSD. She said that it sounded to her like I am content with this decision. Resigned is more like it. But yes, I am content that this is the most stable long term solution.

She usually hates it and cuts me off if I hazard a guess as to what she is thinking. She did not in any way object when I described her as dissociating during sex, or having PTSD, or what she might want if she reconnected her mind and body.

Neither of those things are true. She knows she constantly takes more out your relationship than you do and is only afraid of losing your utility. That's what upsets her. If she actually felt guilty, she would make an effort to change. She isn't going to put forth more effort if she doesn't have to.

Hold, the level of honesty and compassion in that conversation is impressive.

Something that stood out to me was the phrasing “your mind flies away from your body” which I believe set the tone and made it possible for Mrs Hold to avoid the blame trap that a lot of times derails discussions. Your phrasing conveyed to me, and possibly to Mrs Hold, that it’s something that happens and not something the she does.

I think that you’re right about Mrs Hold’s worries and feelings of guilt. I have long been under the impression that she has been just as concerned about you leaving her one day as you have been about her leaving you one day.

I’ve noticed that as you have learned about yourself and worked on your end of things that consideration to Mrs Hold follows almost immediately. It wouldn’t surprise me if Mrs Hold one day feels secure enough to attempt to recover from the trauma instead of rely of the white knuckle method of survival.

You’re a good man, Hold. And Mrs Hold seems able to recognize it more and more. That can be an indication that healing is happening on some level. Healing that you have had a hand in providing as well as receiving. It’s a beautiful and wondrous thing to witness. Thanks for sharing like you do.

Wow, Hold. That was absolutely beautiful. Brought tears to my eyes after a horrible day of work. What a most excellent post that brings me to hope for you and Mrs. Hold. Keep working on your relationship. If she can get treatment for the assaults, you have so many more options. Hugs!!

But it is not stable. Men build intimacy and connection with their partner by having sex. Women can get those needs met by other means, but for men we can't.

Your wife is right. She should worry about you not loving her, because she is causing it. Her short term comfort of not providing you sex will only lead to long term disconnection from you.

Look, it doesn't matter to me if you want to continually lower your self-worth to more evenly match your wife's dysfunction. That's your dysfunction. But you are fooling yourself if you think this isn't mostly your wife's issues.

Does it really matter who is “more to blame” in anyone’s situation?

Is it important to assign the “appropriate amount” of blame before or while working on one’s own side of the dynamic?

The thing is that TWO people are in ONE relationship... and in an imago relationship that is a very big deal. So is it productive to use time, effort and resources to assign blame rather than put those things to other use(s) that might promote progress in reaching a person’s most important desires?

It seems to me that when this thread’s focus turned from what a pos Mrs Hold was/is and more toward your responsibility for your end of the relationship that a certain confidence started emerging as well as new boundaries that seem to be providing more what you want and less angst. But I could be mistaken about that.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.



But that is the point. I have no intention of ever working on my own side of the dynamic. Nor she hers. That is why we are so perfectly matched. We would both rather stay in a less fulfilling relationship than work on ourselves, request that our spouse deal with them dysfunction, and leave if our spouse can't or won't. We both believe a more fulfilling relationship is unlikely to manifest, which makes the price of transitioning to be available for "better offers" too high to bear.

Hold

I’ve always felt like what stopped you from working on you was fear that if you got well it would destroy your relationship. I’m not sure how you could think that when you saw me do what I did. I got SO much stronger and healthier and I just brought Daryl along for the ride. He didn’t get AS healthy as I did, but at the beginning of my journey it was part of my goal and my identity that I was 100% committed to saving the relationship (unless it was completely impossible). I made my therapist aware of how strongly I felt about that and I held to it.

It didn’t stop me from becoming whole. And it improved our relationship. It could do it for you too.

Just my 2 cents, lovingly thrown at your head.

Randa

Excellent suggestions here.

My wife is a pescatarian. She wasn't when we met, but she decided to change. She used to like Ruth's Chris, but even if I paid for the most expensive steak, she wouldn't want it. So, if it was important enough to me that I had to have a wife to go to eat steak with, I'd have to find a new wife.

Hold's problem is mostly about sex. He is essentially in a dead bedroom. In the dead bedroom forums, I would say anecdotally that 90% never get better. The people who commit to staying have to suffer through. They usually eventually bail and regret staying as long as they did, but are happier after leaving.

This isn't about learning new skills about validation or empathy. I guarantee I could find an interest some people are passionate about (bird watching, stamp collecting, cosplay conventions...) that no amount of counseling will change a disinterested persons enthusiasm for wanting to do it.

That's Hold's wife about sex. Hold realizes this and he wants to stay married. Getting healthy means he leaves and he doesn't want to do that. I can understand that, because I've been there myself.

I disagree. I basically gave up on having a fulfilling sex life with Mrs. Hold when we stopped doing MC in 2005. 15 years later I am still here. I have a much lower libido today than I did 15 years ago. My wife's cancer caused her to be more appreciative of my faithfulness. I am much less likely to leave over our dead bedroom today than I was 15 years ago. So time has made our relationship more stable.