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Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: Vibrissa] #51350
01/14/11 10:53 PM
01/14/11 10:53 PM
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Edmond Dantes Offline
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Oh, I definitely hear you on that. I have a habit of slipping into Mastertalk myself. Not only that, I have been accused of thinking "I'm the smartest guy in every room I walk into", which I think is just another way of saying I'm a Pre-Invalidator.

I try to be gentle with myself but I do recognize how someone could think that and I don't like it.

I'm making an effort to do better here as training for the real world. Baby steps.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: Edmond Dantes] #51353
01/14/11 10:58 PM
01/14/11 10:58 PM
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Keeping up with this thread, but just walked in the door from work and now walking out the door to a HS swim meet. Hoping my son (again!!) breaks the Butterfly record! smile

Will check in later tonight or sometime tomorrow. I've been thinking about this ALL afternoon and have some things I want to say.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: Vibrissa] #51428
01/15/11 01:19 AM
01/15/11 01:19 AM
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flowmom Offline
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Originally Posted By: Vibrissa
I do Master Speak A LOT. I'm discovering that about myself. I have a way of speaking that presents my opinion as fact, as truth. When, really, I am open to my ideas NOT being fact. My speech doesn't reflect that. It should.
I can totally relate. And ironically, it comes out most when I'm attempting to be supportive of my family, IRL friends, and online acquaintances. I think a person asking for help/support triggers my Master side, and perhaps that's one of the few roles that I play that gives me a sense of power blush . Humbling to recognize that kind of motivation mixed in with a true desire to understand and help.


we: me44 + my husband Pookie :9: + S9 + D6
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #51508
01/15/11 05:20 AM
01/15/11 05:20 AM
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Well, it was painful to read this article and recognize how weak my validation and prevalidation skills are. My ruminations while reading the article:

Originally Posted By: AlTurtle
I say, "Oh, I see why you jumped up and ran across the porch. You are deathly allergic to bee stings, had forgotten you epinephrine kit, and have terrible memories of your first sting. Did I get that,"
Maybe this sounds different IRL, but it sounds so awkward to me reading it.

Originally Posted By: AlTurtle
When I see my partner as "odd," it is normal to focus on them, when the real problem is in me. I repeat, "When I think you are odd, it means I am un-informed."
This was one of the most toxic stances I took in the later stages of my M -- focusing on STBXH's problems from a pre-invalidating POV. I see now that I needed to focus on me.

Originally Posted By: AlTurtle
"When you did that (mention the action you saw, not your interpretation of it) I know it made sense to you (PreValidation), but it seemed odd to me or I didn't understand what was going on for you. Could I make an appointment so that you can help me understand you?"
It probably would have helped our relationship a LOT for me to initiate conversations this way with STBXH. When my frustration with his silence and withdrawal reached a certain point, I gave up trying to truly understand him and regularly attacked him with pre-invalidation.

STBXH, I'm sorry cry


we: me44 + my husband Pookie :9: + S9 + D6
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: flowmom] #51561
01/15/11 01:14 PM
01/15/11 01:14 PM
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Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: flowmom
Well, it was painful to read this article and recognize how weak my validation and prevalidation skills are.

Given how you were taught or mis-taught about validation, it sure makes sense your skills would have been poor.

Originally Posted By: flowmom
Originally Posted By: AlTurtle
I say, "Oh, I see why you jumped up and ran across the porch. You are deathly allergic to bee stings, had forgotten you epinephrine kit, and have terrible memories of your first sting. Did I get that,"
Maybe this sounds different IRL, but it sounds so awkward to me reading it.


Really awkward, but thorough. Sometimes, to get the job done, you end up being a bit awkward. Sandra's forms of validation, using no words at all, seem truly elegant.

Originally Posted By: flowmom
This was one of the most toxic stances I took in the later stages of my M -- focusing on STBXH's problems from a pre-invalidating POV. I see now that I needed to focus on me.


Actually the trick is to focus on both at the same time.

Originally Posted By: flowmom
It probably would have helped our relationship a LOT for me to initiate conversations this way with STBXH. When my frustration with his silence and withdrawal reached a certain point, I gave up trying to truly understand him and regularly attacked him with pre-invalidation. STBXH, I'm sorry cry


Yup. He was doing his best. This shift in thinking I see as opening up to being empathic.

I recall in the last movie of the Lord of the Rings, when the Dark Tower fell and then exploded. The explosion cause a shock wave that rippled outward. Learning Validation and Prevalidation sent such a shock wave out through my understanding of everyone.

Oh, and remember to PreValidate and Empathize with yourself. That was the best you could do at the time. Me thinks. A few tears for yourself may be in order.


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #51627
01/15/11 05:32 PM
01/15/11 05:32 PM
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Posts: 140
Ontario, Canada
Edmond Dantes Offline
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Al, I'm struggling with "getting" the relationship between Validation and Understanding in practice.

I think I almost have it intellectually but 'in the moment', so to speak, I think my expression of understanding and empathy is superficial. Possibly because I'm kidding myself somehow, at some level, at the validation stage of the dialogue. I think I may be too quick to say "I understand" to avoid some hard work, if that makes sense.

To give a concrete example, I'll say that my wife of 23 yrs and me have been separated for 11 months. Before she left she had struck up a friendship with a much younger man who is creative and struggles with bi-polar disorder.

I believe my wife often behaves like a 'caretaking Slave' and when she left her principal complaints were that she didn't feel I even liked her (probably the result of years of our Master/Slave dynamic), she didn't think we had ever been friends, she didn't trust me (I had done things to make her lizard very stressed) and she had found someone with whom she had a 'better emotional connection' (I now believe her Slave behavior moved from relating to me as the 'authority' in an unhealthy way to relating to him as a 'caretaker' of his neediness).

After she announced she was 'done', we continued to live under the same roof with our three teenage daughters for several months while she pursued a 'friend with benefits' relationship with the new man. I believed that the dynamics of our relationship and some very trying outside stresses had 'broken' her and I felt a great deal of compassion for what she was going through. I tried to show her how much I cared for her by really stepping up. I took on all the parenting responsibilities etc.

Finally, after nearly six months of this, with her discounting what I was doing as 'just trying to get her back in the box', I couldn't handle it anymore. We agreed to nest the girls and switch in and out of the house weekly. Once this happened I 'went dark'. Not to punish her but because I thought I was at the end of my rope.

I now know that her new relationship stopped being romantic around the time we physically separated in August. They moved back to a 'friendship' and now she tells me they don't communicate anymore.

We met this week and she wanted me to 'tell her about my changes'. She used a lot of Mastertalk (sounded like the old me (!)) and I had the impression she has discovered the "sense of power" that comes from adopting the Master perspective rather than the Slaves. In the moment I was thinking this might be temporarily necessary to her recovery and it helped me to be tolerant of some difficult messages and commmunication.

I made an effort to listen and validate as she talked about her perspective on where we had come from.

One of the things she focussed on was how I had rejected what she described as an offer of friendship after we physically separated. At the time I had told her I wasn't able to be close to her while she was pursuing a romantic relationship with another man.

Now she tells me "your unwillingness to be my friend this year has been a big red flag for me". I find myself saying I understand how she must feel but it feels shallow. I'm not sure how to go about 'validating' her feelings around the friendship issue, really understand her perspective on this and later communicate my very different perspective on why I couldn't be her 'friend' at that time.

I apologize for being so personal about this but I'm very interested in anything more you have to say about the relationship between validation, understanding and 'agreement'.

I heard you say you had a difficult time living some of these things out yourself and that you got better over time. I would find it really helpful if you could say more about your personal challenges and any things you found helpful to assist with breakthroughs. Thanks kindly.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #51638
01/15/11 05:56 PM
01/15/11 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: AlTurtle
Sandra's forms of validation, using no words at all, seem truly elegant.


Would really like to hear more about that. A lot of times the spoken forms seem 'not quite me' even after a long time of practice.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: jerome] #51640
01/15/11 06:01 PM
01/15/11 06:01 PM
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I would like to hear more, too. Sometimes I take a chance, dig way below the water line in my iceberg and share with H, only to get kinda...nothing in return. I'm not looking for him to share something equally deep. I'm looking for validation. Maybe I'm missing non-verbal signals.

Or maybe he just doesn't give a *(^* and is just humoring me.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: OurHouse] #51652
01/15/11 06:25 PM
01/15/11 06:25 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Edmond Dantes Offline
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Seems to me, Ourhouse, the point of validation is for the sharer to feel heard.

I think if you are sharing with your H and not feeling validated, rather than thinking you are missing something, it might be worth trying to communicate to your H that you don't really feel like he's 'getting' you. Perhaps if you work from there it might help.

For what it's worth, I'm trying to adopt a 'first seek to understand and then be understood' stance. Maybe if you tell your H how you feel and then validate him if he responds defensively, you might be able to show him how to mirror you when the roles are reversed in the future. Just one thought. Hope it helps.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #51678
01/15/11 08:11 PM
01/15/11 08:11 PM
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I hope it's OK for me to comment on your sitch ED. I have struggled a lot in marriage to BOTH setting boundaries AND prevalidating/validating, and as a result they get all muddled up in my mind. It seems like a reasonable boundary to say: "W, I am not going to tolerate your ongoing contact with OM while we are married". At the same time, in your communication with her you can seek to understand and recognize that her actions "make sense". That doesn't mean that her actions don't transgress your boundaries though! Al has a couple of GREAT articles on boundaries on his web site, and there are a lot of examples of how to set boundaries.

I'll be curious to read what others think.


we: me44 + my husband Pookie :9: + S9 + D6
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: flowmom] #51687
01/15/11 08:36 PM
01/15/11 08:36 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Edmond Dantes Offline
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I appreciate your comments FM. I believe I am now past the communication with OM phase and into the 'show and tell', "we haven't been in touch for a long time, please tell me how things will be different than our old marriage so my lizard can feel safe again" phase.

I do believe boundaries will be very important for us (if we get there) as I try to encourage her to work with me to address her resentments (and mine eventually, I hope). I've been at DB and here for awhile, on the sidelines, and I've been turned off by the amount of Mastertalk used by some of the more hardline exposure, tough love crowd. I'm very pleased to have missed participating in the 'Counter Intuitive' 'what attracts them back' debate, if you know what I mean.

To each his own, but it seems to me that discussion is being dominated by reformed 'wusses' who seem to believe their experiences have general application and one size fits all. That would be doing more of the same from me I'm sad to say. Not the wussiness but the bullying.

Thanks for thinking of me. I am grateful.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: OurHouse] #51706
01/15/11 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: OurHouse
I would like to hear more, too. Sometimes I take a chance, dig way below the water line in my iceberg and share with H, only to get kinda...nothing in return. I'm not looking for him to share something equally deep. I'm looking for validation. Maybe I'm missing non-verbal signals.

Or maybe he just doesn't give a *(^* and is just humoring me.


Oh yeah, I know that one from both sides. When I've been the quiet one, I know sometimes I've felt threatened by what I percieved as a partner's expectations. I think it would be interesting to explore what is going on between you.

I also wonder sometimes, if the training wheels of re-languaging things can sometimes turn into a subtle form of lying. Where for example, I see myself hiding mastertalk by changing the way things are worded. I would guess other people's lizards would see that right away.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: Edmond Dantes] #51711
01/15/11 08:58 PM
01/15/11 08:58 PM
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ED, I agree with what you're saying. Those lines of advice can be helpful to those for whom those changes would be 180s. But having been married to an alpha male type who tended to bully, I can tell you that efforts to repair our marriage coming from STBXH would have required different 180s on his part, including empathy and acceptance. Still, STBXH didn't actually have good boundary skills and I think that's partly why he relied on bullying and punishing with me. I believe he could have found more connecting ways of keeping himself safe and soothing his lizard.


we: me44 + my husband Pookie :9: + S9 + D6
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: Edmond Dantes] #51725
01/15/11 09:27 PM
01/15/11 09:27 PM
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Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
Al, I'm struggling with "getting" the relationship between Validation and Understanding in practice.
That's what this Whiteboard is for, I believe.

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
I think I almost have it intellectually but 'in the moment', so to speak, I think my expression of understanding and empathy is superficial. Possibly because I'm kidding myself somehow, at some level, at the validation stage of the dialogue. I think I may be too quick to say "I understand" to avoid some hard work, if that makes sense.


Been there, done that. I found out I am amazingly lazy at times.

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
To give a concrete example, I'll say that my wife of 23 yrs and me have been separated for 11 months. Before she left she had struck up a friendship with a much younger man who is creative and struggles with bi-polar disorder.

I believe my wife often behaves like a 'caretaking Slave' and when she left her principal complaints were that she didn't feel I even liked her (probably the result of years of our Master/Slave dynamic), she didn't think we had ever been friends, she didn't trust me (I had done things to make her lizard very stressed) and she had found someone with whom she had a 'better emotional connection' (I now believe her Slave behavior moved from relating to me as the 'authority' in an unhealthy way to relating to him as a 'caretaker' of his neediness).


Stories, for me, are a great way of illustrating "sense", "understanding", "PreValidating" and occasionally "validation." Let's look at this one so far.

First, I've got three people in your story. You, she and this guy. All of them are always doing their best - me PreValidating them all.

You and she stayed together a long time and did a whole pile of beautiful and foolish stuff to each other. Ok.

During that time you formed to theories about how she operated - understanding. I think "Understanding" is a Lizard driven phenomenon of our Cortex. Our Lizard wants Predictive Information and wants things to seem as if they are orderly. So it encourages the Cortex to build theories (just like scientists). The purpose of the theories to be Predictive. Every time the Lizard senses that the Cortex has built a better theory, is speaks up with a kind of joy/relief that we experience as Understanding. Your "understanding" of your wife and of this guy are all part of this process. Good for you.

Doesn't mean your theories are accurate, but they are the best you have at this moment. At any moment, that I believe is all we have - the best we've got at that moment. (She "caretaker", he bi-polar, he needy, she needy of a needy person. She speaks and shares her theories of her and of you, and you have theories about what she thinks. Lots of material here. So far not much room for Validation.)

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
After she announced she was 'done', we continued to live under the same roof with our three teenage daughters for several months while she pursued a 'friend with benefits' relationship with the new man. I believed that the dynamics of our relationship and some very trying outside stresses had 'broken' her and I felt a great deal of compassion for what she was going through. I tried to show her how much I cared for her by really stepping up. I took on all the parenting responsibilities etc.


One useful reframe in that story might be to use PreValidation. Some how some things, perhaps outside stresses, shook her out of her stuck relationship she had with you. She was finally moving toward something more healthy, and she was moving away from you cuz she at the time saw you as hopeless. This is my guess at understanding her, based on your story and my firm awareness that she's doing her best - and then speculating on how that, which you called "broken" was her best. She made/makes sense so let's go figure it out.

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
Finally, after nearly six months of this, with her discounting what I was doing as 'just trying to get her back in the box', I couldn't handle it anymore. We agreed to nest the girls and switch in and out of the house weekly. Once this happened I 'went dark'. Not to punish her but because I thought I was at the end of my rope.


I love what you are doing. Sharing is often about making it easy for someone to validate you. Step one is to share your sense, easily, clearly and candidly. Look at that last sentence, you went what people called "Dark." (This is Validation me to you.) You did it not to punish, but to survive. Your Lizard was dying. "end of rope" I would have done the same thing in the same situation. (You ain't crazy (MasterTalk) that all of us seem to need to hear.) Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
I now know that her new relationship stopped being romantic around the time we physically separated in August. They moved back to a 'friendship' and now she tells me they don't communicate anymore.


Well, given my Map of Relationship all that is pretty predictable - that's what the Map is for - prediction. And you have a guess that she is continuing to move forward and dropping back on him is part of that movement. Good gal.

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
We met this week and she wanted me to 'tell her about my changes'.


She makes sense - PreValidate. So I guess what her sense is. She's been waiting for you to change in many many unconscious and conscious ways for many years. You are moving (changes) and she's curious.

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
She used a lot of Mastertalk (sounded like the old me (!)) and I had the impression she has discovered the "sense of power" that comes from adopting the Master perspective rather than the Slaves. In the moment I was thinking this might be temporarily necessary to her recovery and it helped me to be tolerant of some difficult messages and commmunication.


Really good thinking on your part. Lots of Slaves think there is more power in Master or Passive Master, and thus it seems a pathway. The true power is over on Friend/Friend. So you head that way and you both get tons of power.

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
I made an effort to listen and validate as she talked about her perspective on where we had come from. One of the things she focussed on was how I had rejected what she described as an offer of friendship after we physically separated. At the time I had told her I wasn't able to be close to her while she was pursuing a romantic relationship with another man.


Remember, she makes/made sense and so do you. If you get distracted into MasterTalk, into talking about what "really happened back then," I think you will slip off. So the way to go is to make her feel heard - thoroughly, PreValidate her, and then as you get data, Validate her.

"So that was, for you, a reaching out to me. And you felt rejected by what I did. I sure can see that. Must have hurt. Tell me more "about your memory.'"

Don't mix up your memory of your sense with witnessing her memory of her sense.

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
Now she tells me "your unwillingness to be my friend this year has been a big red flag for me". I find myself saying I understand how she must feel but it feels shallow.


As she is talking and sharing, her understanding of herself will grow and get deeper. I would take cheer in that she is sharing at all.

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
I'm not sure how to go about 'validating' her feelings around the friendship issue, really understand her perspective on this and later communicate my very different perspective on why I couldn't be her 'friend' at that time.


Ok, one biggie here. You don't validate a situation or a feeling or a belief. You validate a person. You see her sense and share proof that you see her sense, and let her acknowledge that she feels understood. Remember I define Validation as anything you do that makes her feel understood. If you share your theory and she feels understood, you did it. If you share your theory and she says, "not quite", she probably trying to help you validate by giving you better data about her sense. Either way you are on the right track, I believe.

How to validate "a feeling?" Two things. I suggest you get rid of the phrases "feel like" or "feel as if" cuz they are really not feelings but rather thinkings. So your task is to validate her beliefs at the time. "Ok so you think I have been unwilling to be your friend during this last year. I am not questioning that you did/do think it 'PreValidation'. What do you remember me doing that suggested this to you?" With luck she'll give you some for-instances and you can use them in a Validation statement.

What do you remember me doing that suggested this? I apologize for being so personal about this but I'm very interested in anything more you have to say about the relationship between validation, understanding and 'agreement'.

I think this was fun. Last thought. "Agreement" is about Master/Slave and MasterTalk. Kick it out the window. Not necessary at all. I often say, "Sandra and I have not argued in 17 years, but then we haven't wasted time agreeing either for that long."

Originally Posted By: Edmond Dantes
I heard you say you had a difficult time living some of these things out yourself and that you got better over time. I would find it really helpful if you could say more about your personal challenges and any things you found helpful to assist with breakthroughs. Thanks kindly.


I hear you and will think on it. I only have so much time for MA. When Sandra was away I had more. Now she's back and time with her comes first. Whew!


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #51744
01/15/11 10:05 PM
01/15/11 10:05 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Thank you so much for your generous gift to me. I type this with tears of gratitude in my eyes.

I want to study all that you have said and meditate on it all for awhile. I wanted you to know immediately though how much I appreciated the sentence, "She makes sense - PreValidate." Lights went off in my head.

Bless you.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: flowmom] #51817
01/16/11 12:03 AM
01/16/11 12:03 AM
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AlTurtle Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: flowmom
But having been married to an alpha male type who tended to bully, I can tell you that efforts to repair our marriage coming from STBXH would have required different 180s on his part, including empathy and acceptance. Still, STBXH didn't actually have good boundary skills and I think that's partly why he relied on bullying and punishing with me.


Good thinking, I believe. I can add a bit.

STBXH may have learned the skills of bullying or of acting like an alpha-male long ago, but he continued these behaviors because they worked for him when you were around. If make sure that those behaviors don't work for him, he will likely look for new ways to behave.

His turning 180 degrees or starting with just a 10 degree turn, may come as you turn 40 degrees yourself.



Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #51898
01/16/11 03:04 AM
01/16/11 03:04 AM
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I think one of the ways I can improve the quality of my validation skills is to check my mirroring practises.

Thinking on it now and going back to your mirroring paper, I can see that I've been seeking to understand before ensuring I've really 'heard' the message. I found the following really helpful:

"Mirroring assists the receiver in focusing on the sender's words, not on the receiver's thoughts. It helps clarify that the sender's words are coming from the sender's world only. It helps develop listening skills that are relaxing. Remember if you react to anything your partner sends, you are allowing their words to penetrate your world. If you are analyzing or thinking about what your partner is saying, you are probably not listening."

I have a tendancy to think and analyze in what a Buddist might describe as a 'grasping' way. I doubt I'm the only one with this problem and I think it might be a real obstacle to helping my partner feel understood.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: flowmom] #51904
01/16/11 03:10 AM
01/16/11 03:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 140
Ontario, Canada
Edmond Dantes Offline
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Edmond Dantes  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 140
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: flowmom
Still, STBXH didn't actually have good boundary skills and I think that's partly why he relied on bullying and punishing with me. I believe he could have found more connecting ways of keeping himself safe and soothing his lizard.


I recognize a lot of myself in this comment. I'd be interested in any thoughts anyone had about how to enhance personal boundary skills so I wasn't so inclined to get defensive and then get righteous.

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: Edmond Dantes] #51927
01/16/11 03:31 AM
01/16/11 03:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,027
O
OurHouse Offline
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OurHouse  Offline
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O
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,027
Quote:
I suggest you get rid of the phrases "feel like" or "feel as if" cuz they are really not feelings but rather thinkings


I love this.

I use these phrases a lot. And I often seem to dig myself into a deep hole when I do. If my husband says or does something that upsets me, I will try to frame my feeling in an "I" statement (as we are taught), but the tendency to jump to "I feel like..." takes the entire "I" out of the "I" statement. I wondered why it felt like that and I'm seeing now that "I feel like" is really just cleverly disguised Master Talk. Instead, if I'm upset, I should just say "I'm hurt by your words" or, as I read in another forum, "Ouch!"


Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: OurHouse] #53119
01/18/11 02:50 AM
01/18/11 02:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,381
TX
CajunRose Offline
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CajunRose  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,381
TX
I attended a conference at work today. The afternoon had 4 sessions, each led by a different person, in which we were supposed to brainstorm on various topics. Three of the sessions were really dry and didn't get a lot of responses. The fourth session was led by a woman who had an EXCELLENT grasp of how to mirror and validate. That was by far the most productive session - ideas just kept coming.

It was interesting to me to see how these concepts apply in all kinds of environments, not just romantic relationships.


Current spouse: Night. D10, D9, S7

About me

You can't direct the wind, but you can adjust your sails.

http://www.divorcedmomfinances.com
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: CajunRose] #53453
01/18/11 04:45 PM
01/18/11 04:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 908
Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
Retired Therapist
AlTurtle  Offline OP
Retired Therapist
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 908
Northwest Washington State, US...
I am heartened when I hear of those skills being taught. I believe they belong everywhere. I think Romantic Relationships are the most difficult relationships. That between historical enemies (Israeli Palestinian) groups is probably next most difficult and then on down. Dialogue seems to me an excellent set of skills.


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #53888
01/19/11 12:48 AM
01/19/11 12:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,381
Texas
Larry Offline
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Larry  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,381
Texas

*sigh* there some go, talking about Master talk again. My least favorite subject and most difficult assignment. Ugh!

Still working on it.

Larry




It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: Larry] #53890
01/19/11 12:50 AM
01/19/11 12:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,381
Texas
Larry Offline
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Larry  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,381
Texas

Sign just above my screen DUNNING-KRUGER, YOU MORON.

And my avatar is a railroad company. Reminds me to stop, look and listen.


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: Larry] #53902
01/19/11 01:07 AM
01/19/11 01:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,505
Amadahy Offline
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Amadahy  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,505
crud - if larry dont get it - i am skiiiiiiiii - rude!

Re: Topic 4: "The Secret of Validation" - Building Trust [Re: Amadahy] #53905
01/19/11 01:12 AM
01/19/11 01:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,381
Texas
Larry Offline
Member
Larry  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,381
Texas

Oh, I get it. It is breaking the habits of a very loooooong life that is the problem. Stop, look, listen helps. Unfortunately much of my IRL conversation is with women. A pause for thought is considered to be an opportunity for them to fill the void. Of course they all think I am a great conversationalist. grin


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
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