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Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Lil] #108506
05/20/11 12:56 AM
05/20/11 12:56 AM
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LadyGrey Offline
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I've been thinking about this subject all afternoon.

I see a distinction between things the unfaithful spouse does in the immediate aftermath of the affair, things that the unfaithful spouse does going forward and things the unfaithful spouse needs to do internally.

The first category includes transparency and accountability giving the faithful spouse the needed data to know the affair is over and no contact is in place and being maintained. I view those as more short term measures presumably at some point the need to be able to account for your time on an hourly basis, be mindful of leaving your cell phone on the kitchen counter or having it with you every minute, GPS tracking, etc. will dissipate. While the unfaithful spouse should be willing to do those things, the need for them should decline over time. Who wants to monitor their spouse's every movement for the rest of their life? And let me assure you, we don't want to be monitored.

I would call those Interim Measures. I have no idea what a reasonable time frame for those measures might be.

The second category includes changes in behavior that the unfaithful spouse commits to for life, like never being alone with a member of the opposite sex. While changes in circumstance might require reevaluating that commitment for example, were I to start practicing law again, I would have to be alone with members of the opposite sex and there is simply no getting around that the presumption would be that the unfaithful spouse will continue with that commitment in the absence of an agreement to the contrary.

I would call those Extraordinary Precautions.

The third category includes things the unfaithful spouse needs to change and heal within themselves. For example, I am guilty of occasional bouts of self-loathing and deep depression, both of which make me more vulnerable to seeking relief in an affair, and make my husband nervous. Part of my commitment is to heal those parts of me so that I am a safer spouse for my husband, and being extra vigilant about my boundaries when I am feeling that way.

I would call those Internal Precautions.

Thought I would throw that out there for the group to chew on.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: LadyGrey] #108643
05/20/11 11:37 AM
05/20/11 11:37 AM
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I think your thoughts there are fab. I'd never thought of maybe having "interim measures", although J didn't get that I need EPs and now that I see your H's reasoning I can see that he may have had the same issue.

Soon after I set out my EPs wish were a mixture of your EPs and interim measures I was helped to realise that I needed internal measures too.

My original EPs did wonders for my self esteem anyway, it felt good being so honest and trustworthy and open after all the deceit.

But actually for recovering a marriage properly it is those internal measures that need special attention and I think a year on these become the most valuable.



Married 22years (this year) ~13y since dday(?)
DD17 DS14
Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Squeaky Tree] #109669
05/22/11 10:05 PM
05/22/11 10:05 PM
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I haven't had time to get back to this thread, I want to and I will at some point. I think it's a great thread. smile


26 yrs. married
There's nothing more powerful than a woman with an open heart ......
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Lil] #113617
05/30/11 08:34 PM
05/30/11 08:34 PM
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I agree that EPs are for everyone based on individual weaknesses.

When we counseled with Steve Harley, he cautioned me to be open to backing off the constant monitoring of email by a year out in recovery. Once we got into a real recovery, I found that at a certain point I was not being served well by too much monitoring. I accepted that I could not control any of my H's behavior but I could begin to control my own.

I think that for the rest of my life I will need passwords and the ability to do random checks. However, I do them rarely and reluctantly now, because obsessing isn't healthy for me.


Chrysalis
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Chrysalis] #113682
05/30/11 10:57 PM
05/30/11 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chrysalis


When we counseled with Steve Harley, he cautioned me to be open to backing off the constant monitoring of email by a year out in recovery.


I think it would be helpful to both spouses to add some time parameters, adaptable to the specifics of the situation. It would be nice to know that there is an end, regardless of when it might be, which of course assume there will be an end when there may very well not be.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: LadyGrey] #113685
05/30/11 11:09 PM
05/30/11 11:09 PM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
There are some precautions that I will have forever. They are just going to be part of my life. Some things I was very militant about, I have relaxed, and not just because I think it has been long enough since 2006. Even H - for a long time - thought some of my "paranoias" were extreme. Legalism has never been one of his favorite things, but in the aftermath of the A it was necessary.

There is a tendency I think, for some personalities, to try to think out every eventuality and guard against every conceivable scenario on the planet. This is how guidelines for modesty, etc. become so extreme in religious circles.

H informed me awhile back that my laptop has no "spyware" stuff on it. I just assumed it did because....I assumed it did. It hasn't changed what I do with my computer.....I haven't suddenly begun visiting porn sites and singing up with 14 aliases on 18 dating sites or camming myself.....

In some ways maybe it is a moot point....but you know, I would think the ideal would be doing the right thing.....because it is the right thing and not because you might get caught.

Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: herfuturesbright] #130117
07/04/11 01:45 PM
07/04/11 01:45 PM
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Vittoria Offline
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Came across this on another thread. I think it fits well here, thanks FH for these good thoughts.

Originally Posted By: FH
Until someone is well into Recovery, it would seem to me to be the prudent thing to do to restrict, even eliminate, some activites simply because the Trust Factor takes a long time to reestablish. The thought here is that Trust can be defined in a marital situation as being able to accurately predict what your spouse will, or wont, do in a given situation even if you are not present. Given that infidelity destroyed all trust, and certainly the ability to accurately predict what your spouse would do when you werent around, it seems that permission to go is not necessarily an indication that Trust has been reestablished. It may reflect other things, but usually the Faithful Spouse will endure the solo time away, hoping for the best, but will likely be mentally fixated on the what ifs during the time apart and until such time as the spouse can give believable reassurances that nothing untoward happened.

Its asking a lot for a Wayward Spouse to ask for, or demand, time away to party without the Betrayed Spouse under the auspices of Recovery from Infidelity. To a certain extent, it is a denial of consequences of adultery, despite being forgiven for the act itself.

Ive always thought that Recovery from Infidelity means that there are going to be some things that you used to be able to do that you cannot, or certainly should not, do anymore. Places you cant go, people you cant be with, things you cant watch, etc. In some respects it is part of the no contact package that extends beyond just the affair partner in particular.

When well into Recovery, or when Recovered, there may be more things that can be done "solo," because Trust will have been reestablished.




26 yrs. married
There's nothing more powerful than a woman with an open heart ......
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Vittoria] #204990
02/06/12 07:33 PM
02/06/12 07:33 PM
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Vittoria Offline
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bumped for Crush


26 yrs. married
There's nothing more powerful than a woman with an open heart ......
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Vittoria] #204993
02/06/12 07:47 PM
02/06/12 07:47 PM
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I see that some Sprint phones are made with a GPS tracker, which costs $10. a month. That way someone can see that you are where you say you are all day.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Lil] #248631
07/23/12 03:21 AM
07/23/12 03:21 AM
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I have been searching thru my main commputer this morning, and look what I found smile

Lil's Extraordinary Precautions

I will protect my husband at all times
I will practice the MB principals as stated by Dr. Harley
I will share all passwords, and account info with my husband.
I will make my cell phone available to my husband at any time
I will share my private feelings, thoughts, and concerns with my husband
I will share my schedule with my husband and discuss any changes with him.
I will not discuss my personal issues with any man besides my husband unless he gives his consent
I will not help/discuss another mans problems unless my husband gives his consent
I will not be alone with another man unless my husband approves.
I will not go out with another man unless my husband is present.
I will not have a male therapist or personal trainer unless my husband is present or there is an emergency and I am need of immediate assistance.
I will not participate in activities without my husband unless he approves enthusiastically.
I will never have any secrets from my husband - unless its his birthday or Christmas present.
I will not let anybody walk over me I will stand up for myself
I will not accept anything but Openness & Honesty
I will listen to my gut/instincts
I will wake up each morning and make a concentrated effort to be happy






AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Lil] #248694
07/23/12 01:24 PM
07/23/12 01:24 PM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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Lil, I am printing these out because I love how they protect both M and self. smile

Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: herfuturesbright] #248828
07/24/12 01:13 AM
07/24/12 01:13 AM
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Lil Offline

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Write some for yourself and post them here....

I like the idea of EP's for both spouses, and I guess I had some half formed, never set down ones pre A, but written down is best. Easier to refer back to.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Lil] #248994
07/24/12 08:00 PM
07/24/12 08:00 PM
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LadyGrey Offline
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I wonder if there is a distinction between those actions taken to assure the faithful spouse that the affair is over and those actions taken to protect the marriage from a future affair.

I was thinking back to some things I did in the beginning that I don't do anymore like take my cell phone out of my purse and leave it readily accessible on the kitchen counter or leave my email open at all times.

I see some things -- like never being alone with a man to whom I am not related -- as forever and some things--like texting a picture of a really ugly $1200 shoe to reassure him I was at the mall like I said I was -- are more temporary.

I don't much like the term "extraordinary" precautions as it suggests that they are not necessarily part of an "ordinary" marriage but I'm guessing that the term is fixed.

I suppose I would expect transparency from my husband if I wanted to look at his cell phone or computer, but I certainly don't expect him to not be alone with a woman so for me, mutuality is not required. My husband isn't a fan of the concept though so we have never really talked about it.

I'm rambling -- recreating the spreadsheets is SO tedious.

1. I won't be alone with a member of the opposite sex between the ages of ___ and ____ (whatever works for you).

2. I won't discuss my marriage with a member of the opposite sex.

3. I won't discuss my marriage with anyone unless I have first discussed the matter with my spouse.

4. I won't tolerate anyone at any time bad mouthing my husband.

My break is over.....


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: LadyGrey] #249177
07/25/12 04:09 PM
07/25/12 04:09 PM
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My pastor used to say that always imagine your spouse was beside you and listening and watching your actions. That worked for me.

I guess my husband was sleeping through those sermons.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: believer] #249195
07/25/12 06:38 PM
07/25/12 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: LdG
I don't much like the term "extraordinary" precautions as it suggests that they are not necessarily part of an "ordinary" marriage but I'm guessing that the term is fixed.

One of my H's boundaries which we both discussed and agreed upon was that he would not travel into the area where OW was. Another was that his cell # be changed for NC reasons.

These are not cautionary measures that a couple whose M has not been slammed by infidelity would likely even consider discussing or implementing. That's how I see the word 'extraordinary' fitting into M's affected by infidelity. An added layer of protection against further harm and I see it beneficial for both spouses, not only the BS.


26 yrs. married
There's nothing more powerful than a woman with an open heart ......
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Vittoria] #249292
07/26/12 03:50 AM
07/26/12 03:50 AM
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Lil Offline

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Ordinary or extraordinary, I dont know if the name really means much beyond driving home the point that we need to do things to protect our marriage.

DH is up the mountain skiing today. its his habit to ring and text me during the day. Nothing special, just rejoicing in a particulary fast run, comments on people he sees, jokes and flirting.

This morning his phone failed to charge on the drive, laving him with 20% battery. He chose to ring me and tell me he would be switching the phone off for the day to preserve it and would ring me when he was on his way home.

He didnt have to do it, I certainly have never asked him to, but I was touched by the thoughtfulness. To be honest, I'm not sure I would have thought to do it myself. So yes in one way he was protecting our marriage by being totally transparent, and in another he was showing he cares for my by keeping me in the loop. Both factors improve our M.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Lil] #249323
07/26/12 08:17 AM
07/26/12 08:17 AM
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Squeaky Tree Offline
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After band the other night i quite fancied going to the pub with them (some always go, I only tend to go in the hols). I went to phone J to check it was OK (thinking of him wanting to get to bed for work and also because of my history with music involved), one of the guys said "you have to ask him?"

....and I thought, no I don't have to ask him. It must just be that EPs and the thoughtfulness that comes with them and is behind them just becomes part of who you are.


Married 22years (this year) ~13y since dday(?)
DD17 DS14
Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Squeaky Tree] #249373
07/26/12 04:23 PM
07/26/12 04:23 PM
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Surface of the sun
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Quote:
....and I thought, no I don't have to ask him. It must just be that EPs and the thoughtfulness that comes with them and is behind them just becomes part of who you are.


My husband does this, and he has not dealt firsthand with infidelity, but he knows I have. I am ALWAYS grateful to him for the thoughtfulness of it all. ALWAYS. I always know where he is, what he's doing...he sends me photos and texts throughout the day. Yesterday, he picked his son up and went up into the mountains for a quick hike. He sent me pics of his son climbing around on the rocks, just because.

It's not required. I'm not his keeper. He cares. I'll take it. He's actually better at EP's than I am by a small margin. My EPs are what I choose, his are what he chooses. No demands were made.

Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Squeaky Tree] #249456
07/27/12 02:51 AM
07/27/12 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: Squeaky Tree
After band the other night i quite fancied going to the pub with them (some always go, I only tend to go in the hols). I went to phone J to check it was OK (thinking of him wanting to get to bed for work and also because of my history with music involved), one of the guys said "you have to ask him?"

....and I thought, no I don't have to ask him. It must just be that EPs and the thoughtfulness that comes with them and is behind them just becomes part of who you are.
And who wouldn't want to be married to someone who shows that much consideration?

Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Lil] #249558
07/27/12 11:15 PM
07/27/12 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: lildoggie
I have been searching thru my main commputer this morning, and look what I found smile

Lil's Extraordinary Precautions

I will protect my husband at all times
I will practice the MB principals as stated by Dr. Harley
I will share all passwords, and account info with my husband.
I will make my cell phone available to my husband at any time
I will share my private feelings, thoughts, and concerns with my husband
I will share my schedule with my husband and discuss any changes with him.
I will not discuss my personal issues with any man besides my husband unless he gives his consent
I will not help/discuss another mans problems unless my husband gives his consent
I will not be alone with another man unless my husband approves.
I will not go out with another man unless my husband is present.
I will not have a male therapist or personal trainer unless my husband is present or there is an emergency and I am need of immediate assistance.
I will not participate in activities without my husband unless he approves enthusiastically.
I will never have any secrets from my husband - unless its his birthday or Christmas present.
I will not let anybody walk over me I will stand up for myself
I will not accept anything but Openness & Honesty
I will listen to my gut/instincts
I will wake up each morning and make a concentrated effort to be happy






I wish my W did even half of these things.. Is this what R is suppose to look like?

Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: honeybadger22] #249560
07/27/12 11:27 PM
07/27/12 11:27 PM
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Lil Offline

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Depends on how far in recovery you are, what your marriage is like, and what the 2 people in the marriage do.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: LadyGrey] #249586
07/28/12 03:27 AM
07/28/12 03:27 AM
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Flick Offline
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Originally Posted By: LadyGrey


I don't much like the term "extraordinary" precautions as it suggests that they are not necessarily part of an "ordinary" marriage but I'm guessing that the term is fixed.



Yes, that's right. They are not 'extra', they are part of normal boundaries in a marriage when both care for each other. Writing them down like these examples is no more than writing down your goals or New Years Resolutions. Written goals are more likely to be held to. If they are only in my head I could go out and if an opportunity comes thinks "It doesnt matter what I do, the wifes at home...", which is what leads to lying and cheating.

The basic problem is that the world has a basic lack of respect for itself, and each other.

Extraordinary does sounds better. Nobody is going to google 'ordinary precautions'.

The only thing I think is extraordinary is that we (marriage forum participants) are among the only ones with EP's.


Been there, done that, wish I'd just stayed home.
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Flick] #259882
10/05/12 03:15 PM
10/05/12 03:15 PM
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Posts: 7,566
New Zealand
Lil Offline

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Bump


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Lil] #322370
11/08/13 01:49 AM
11/08/13 01:49 AM
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Vittoria Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ldg
In my (unpopular) opinion, EP's should be mutual and address the fears of both spouses.


The part you have bracketed, 'unpopular', is simply not true for most if not all who see the value in EP's. The concern I see when you state it like this, that your opinion of EP's being mutual is not popular, indicates that the there is also another view which is more popular. And that would be that EP's are not mutual.

If you read through this thread again, you will see that EP's are absolutely mutual. EP's set out by the BS, the ones that are non-negotiable like NC, transparency, the WS has the choice to not accept them. Both spouses agreeing to attempt R, knowing what EP's are on the list (tweaked to their sitch) enter into this agreement on their own free will. I see that as mutual unless one of them has a gun to their head.

Recovery can't be forced on either party.



26 yrs. married
There's nothing more powerful than a woman with an open heart ......
Re: Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) [Re: Vittoria] #322386
11/08/13 04:34 AM
11/08/13 04:34 AM
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LadyGrey Offline
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Originally Posted By: Vittoria
Originally Posted By: Ldg
In my (unpopular) opinion, EP's should be mutual and address the fears of both spouses.


The part you have bracketed, 'unpopular', is simply not true for most if not all who see the value in EP's. The concern I see when you state it like this, that your opinion of EP's being mutual is not popular, indicates that the there is also another view which is more popular. And that would be that EP's are not mutual.

If you read through this thread again, you will see that EP's are absolutely mutual. EP's set out by the BS, the ones that are non-negotiable like NC, transparency, the WS has the choice to not accept them. Both spouses agreeing to attempt R, knowing what EP's are on the list (tweaked to their sitch) enter into this agreement on their own free will. I see that as mutual unless one of them has a gun to their head.

Recovery can't be forced on either party.



My sense from you is that you forced a whole lot of stuff on your husband with a punitive attitude.

My sense from you is that you are uncomfortable with that.

Few show up here with the "my way or the high way" MelodyLane attitude, but from what I can tell, that is your perpective.

I think that is a very valuable perspective to have. Not everyone is me, chafing like mad at all of it. Not everyone is like your husband, willing to take a polygraph and have you as his taskmaster where he reports to you and you monitor his every move and keystroke.

That doesn't make him better than me or vice versa. We are just different --I couldn't tolerate the life he leads, but if it works for y'all that is all that matters.

Last edited by LadyGrey; 11/08/13 04:39 AM.

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